Date:         Sun, 23 Jul 2000 16:28:45 -0700
Reply-To:     kmself@IX.NETCOM.COM
Sender:       "SAS(r) Discussion" <SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From:         kmself@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject:      Meta-topical:  Deja archives
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Meta-topical.  

Deja (the former Usenet archive formerly known as Dejanews), is going
through a restructuring which is strongly impacting its usefulness as
an archive.  I'm raising the topic on SAS-L because it was
the troika of Deja, SAS-L, and SI tech support, which I found to be an
extremely effective support motif.  Given that a preferred response to
many questions is "that is a FAQ, search Deja"  I'm hoping that both
the readership of SAS-L, and SI itself, might take note of the situation.


Deja is a searchable archive of Usenet, available at
http://www.deja.com/.  Prior to a restructuring of the website late last
year, the default page showed a clean interface to the search engine.
The current search page is a mess (OK, it's getting better): 
        http://www.deja.com/=dnc/home_ps.shtml

Several alternatives have been created, of which Jeremy Dixon's is one
of the best (I use a locally hosted hand-tooled version of it myself):
        http://www.exit109.com/~jeremy/news/deja.html

...another increasingly popular mode is to use command-line tools such
as "dejasearch" to pull down, unduplicate, and browse (locally) search
results.


Among other changes, Deja has dropped older archives (reports are that
earliest records are ~ May 1999), though information suggests the data
still exist and the company may bring it back online.  The company has
apparently been trying to shape itself as a leading source of consumer
information online, at the detriment of its general viability as a
Usenet archive.

Slashdot has a good summary of the story and a (surprisingly)
informative discussion accompanying it (at least with threshold >= 2),
at:

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=00/07/21/0157244&threshold=2&mode=thread

...including a pointer to a reasonably informative Usenet discussion
(including possible restoration of older archives):
http://www.deja.com/=dnc/%5BST_rn=ps%5D/viewthread.xp?recnum=%3c8hj938$79h$1@nnrp1.deja.com%3e%231/1


What's most troubling about the changes in Deja's direction is that it
was in part Deja's success and usefulness which drove alternative
archives into the dust -- the JSE SAS gopher archive has been inactive
for some time now, and I'm not aware of any equivalent replacement 
service.

There are several alternatives to the current situation:

        1. Convincing arguments (words and more tangible support) to Deja 
           that persistent Usenet archives are in fact useful.

        2. Identifying technical support as a key business function for 
           Deja.  One option would be for companies to sponsor archival of
           specific newsgroups or topical areas of interest, e.g.:  SI would
           *pay* Deja to provide X years of comp.soft-sys.sas archives.

        3. Identifying another provider.  The two principle candidates at
           present are probably Remarq -- a Usenet archive/Web portal,
           though less useful than Deja IMO; and Google -- a company
           who has identified search and archival as its core competence
           and is doing a bang-up job of it.

        4. Initiating (or cultivating) a new service.  Modeling this along
           the lines of 2. above might be an option.  LinuxCare, a Linux
           services company, which has compiled what's described as a large
           Usenet-style knowledge base.  Non-technical groups might be 
           sponsored by companies with interest in specific areas of
           entertainment, news, or local interest.

User-to-user support has been identified as a key component of the free
software movement.  It's a method I was very familiar with from SAS-L,
part of what convinced me of the viability of the open source concept,
and its usefulness extends to many proprietary companies.  I'd very
much like to see the prior functionality of Deja preserved in some form
or another.

I've suggested to several folks at SI that extending involvement with the
user community would be a Good Thing® (there's still that astronomy club
whom might appreciate a cash infusion and new digs in exchange for
"sas.org").

You can contact Deja through its website feedback form
(http://www.deja.com/mailto.xpa), or mailto:comments@deja.com.
Management and company info are at http://www.deja.com/corp/about.shtml

-- 
Karsten M. Self <kmself@ix.netcom.com>     http://www.netcom.com/~kmself
 Evangelist, Opensales, Inc.                    http://www.opensales.org
  What part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?   Debian GNU/Linux rocks!
   http://gestalt-system.sourceforge.net/    K5: http://www.kuro5hin.org
GPG fingerprint: F932 8B25 5FDD 2528 D595 DC61 3847 889F 55F2 B9B0

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