I think I am in a somewhat different market from the original poster, (I do data analysis for a nonprofit research company, mostly about AIDS, drug abuse, and such things) but...

Yes, I think SAS prices are getting out of line. I am using R more and more, and it's free. The one place where SAS shines, for me, is in data management. (Another place is in handling large data sets, but that isn't an issue for me).

Of course, R has some disadvantages.....no tech support for one thing, and, for me, at least, a steep learning curve. But it outshines SAS in terms of graphics, 'cutting edge' statistics, and the like.

I'm glad I get to use both.......but if I had to pay out of my own pocket, SAS would lose.

Peter

Peter L. Flom, PhD Assistant Director, Statistics and Data Analysis Core Center for Drug Use and HIV Research National Development and Research Institutes 71 W. 23rd St www.peterflom.com New York, NY 10010 (212) 845-4485 (voice) (917) 438-0894 (fax)

>>> Mark Lamias <Mark.Lamias@GRIZZARD.COM> 09/08/03 11:53AM >>> Jim and Curtis,

I'm assuming that your management has these meetings because the exorbitant cost of SAS. Does any one else feel that SAS may be out-pricing themselves from the market? Is there anything we can do as a group to get them to drop their prices or at least rethink their pricing scheme? Just a thought. . .

Sincerely yours,

Mark J. Lamias

-----Original Message----- From: Smith, Curtis, Mr, DCAA [mailto:Curtis.Smith@DCAA.MIL] Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 11:51 AM To: SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: SAS help

Jim:

If you are already using SAS at your company, then you are the best source of information. What do you use it for? Could you do those same things with other common tools, like Excel and Access? As stated by others, we might be able to give some words to help with your comparison to other products, but we need to know how you already use SAS.

I feel for you... I go through the same exercise about every other year. Some of the arguments I use is that I can create end-user applications that are data independent and are user friendly. A programming solution has advantages over an end-user tool like Excel. My users make a few selections from a SAS/AF frame and the analysis runs. Using a tool like Excel to do the same means the user has to sort, add formulae and functions, etc., which is prone to error. SAS handles huge amounts of data. Excel has its row limit, and I think Access has a file size limit. I also find Access cumbersome when I have to have my tables and queries in the same MDB (unless I am using something like ODBC to link to external tables). Access requires I load new data into tables in the existing MDB whenever I need to update the data. Doing so means the MDB keeps getting bigger. The alternative is to create a new MDB for each new data table and then copy all of the existing queries and reports into the new MDB. Doing that means I have multiple copies of the same queries and reports - a maintenance nightmare.

I'm rambling - but, Excel and Access have their place and if that is all you need, then you should use them. SAS is a much better data analysis tool. You can do a lot more with tools like Enterprise Guide, SAS/GRAPH, SAS/STAT, and many other specific analysis modules. But, you'll have to let us know what your needs are.

-----Original Message----- From: James Robinson [mailto:jr55876@HOTMAIL.COM] Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 7:31 AM To: SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: SAS help

My companies "upper-management" is having a meeting to decide if we need to have SAS. I am looking for any information on the advantages of SAS. Any comparisons to other software (SPSS, Access) products would be helpful. I need some concrete examples of things to present to them to show the importance of us having SAS. Our meeting is Tuesday morning, September 9th, so please get back to me today, if you can.

Thanks