Date:         Tue, 7 Dec 2004 13:51:19 -0800
Reply-To:     "Choate, Paul@DDS" <pchoate@DDS.CA.GOV>
Sender:       "SAS(r) Discussion" <SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From:         "Choate, Paul@DDS" <pchoate@DDS.CA.GOV>
Subject:      Re: just some list etiquette

Yes, I agree Toby, but is it already Friday somewhere?

I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning,
that's as good as they're going to feel all day. --Frank Sinatra

Abstainer: a weak person who yields to the temptation of denying himself a
pleasure. --Ambrose Bierce

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy. --Tom
Waits

24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case.  Coincidence? --Stephen Wright

Always remember that I have taken more out of alcohol than alcohol has taken
out of me. --Winston Churchill

Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.  --Benjamin
Franklin

Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen,
for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in
beer.  --Dave Barry

Work is the curse of the drinking classes. -- Oscar Wilde

Paul Choate
DDS Data Extraction
(916) 654-2160

-----Original Message-----
From: SAS(r) Discussion [mailto:SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Dunn,
Toby
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 1:20 PM
To: SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: just some list etiquette

LOL, who needs an excuse to chug a few stiens of your brew of choice.

Remember its noon somewhere in the world, and they can't drink alone.

Toby Dunn

P.S.  The problem with the world is that they are few drinks behind.
Humphry Bogard

-----Original Message-----
From: SAS(r) Discussion [mailto:SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of
David L. Cassell
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 3:05 PM
To: SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: just some list etiquette


"Dunn, Toby" <Toby.Dunn@TEA.STATE.TX.US> sagely replied:
> Ahh... Yes Robert perhaps we should but who would be the judge of how
> well it is formatted and or relates to there question.  Also what of
all
> the OT posts, will they go away?
>
>
> The problem may very well be what Paul states, however for many
reasons
> emails are neither clear as to what the person wants nor contain
> sufficient info.  For us to make a proper suggetsion as to a solution.

> Why is this? Well perhaps its because they know no better, I know when
I
> first staretd on the list I had no clue as to what version of SAS I
was
> usingnor did I think at the time it made a difference.  A few months
> later I knew everything about my system that I could and deffinitly
knew
> it made a huge difference.  I also believe there are thise out there
> that are just new to SAS or the list and have yet to properly
> assimmilate enough info to get their post out correctly.  Others are
> just lazy or perhaps like driving us nuts with half baked questions.
>
> So it is not fare to go hard core against some of these people.  But
> rather we should be giving gentle nudges for people to give the
correct
> info in their posts.  Along with Paul's suggestions on what to include

> in yoru posts I would add context of what you are trying to do, rather

> than I want to do this.

Toby has lots of good points here.

Let's be charitable (particularly at this time of year) and remember
that not every poster who needs help has the SAS knowledge of Ian
Whitlock, the statistical wisdom of Dale McLerran, the computer science
background of Paul Dorfman, the computing experience of Peter Crawford,
and the writing style of Ron Cody.  If the poster did, why would they be
asking
*us* for help?  :-)

Remember that many posters who need help:

  don't know enough SAS to ask the right questions yet;
  don't know enough statistics to see the yawning chasm in front of
them;
  don't know enough about mailing lists and Usenet to know how to ask
the questions;
  don't have the background to know how to explain the problem properly;
  AND
  don't feel comfortable enough to ask without getting so nervous that
        they forget some of what they planned to say.

We constantly see posters who don't know how to phrase the problem in a
reasonable way.  When was the last time that someone submitted such a
reduction of the problem that the key issues got lost in translation?
(Answer: only a day or two ago.)  When was the last time that someone
didn't realize that they were giving us way too *much* data or code to
look at?  (Answer: a week ago at most.)

Plenty of posters don't know what to ask, much less *how* to ask, or
where to go for help, or how to get to the Online Docs.  So just chug a
few steins of Christmas cheer and give them a break.  (Note: at other
times of the year, find your own excuse for chugging those steins.  :-)
:-)

David
--
David Cassell, CSC
Cassell.David@epa.gov
Senior computing specialist
mathematical statistician