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Date:         Mon, 14 Feb 2005 12:10:47 -0600
Reply-To:     "Oliver, Richard" <richard@spss.com>
Sender:       "SPSSX(r) Discussion" <SPSSX-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From:         "Oliver, Richard" <richard@spss.com>
Subject:      Re: Comments on SPSS documentation - Supporting Dale
Comments: To: David Harrell <davidh@Pro-Tech.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

The algorithms are available on the installation CD.

-----Original Message----- From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:SPSSX-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of David Harrell Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 11:19 AM To: SPSSX-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Re: Comments on SPSS documentation - Supporting Dale

Hi Dale,

I fully support your complaint. One thing that always makes me nervous when I publish results having used SPSS is that fact that I do not know the mathematics SPSS is calculating behind the scenes to obtain the results. Moreover, in certain circumstances, the mathematics can occur in various methods and these methods have important differences. Moreover, the result of these differences can have impacts on interpretation. I agree with you Dale. Thank you for bringing this important point to the discussion.

It would be great if I am simply ignorant of the location of these data. If so, could someone please point me in the right direction?

Thank you,

David

****************************************** Dr. David B. Harrell, FRIPH Innovation Research Director Pro-Tech Services, Inc. 4338 Harbour Pointe Blvd SW Mukilteo, WA 98275

Adjunct Professor of Pediatric Sleep Medicine Tel: 425.322.0300 Fax: 425.322.0301

-----Original Message----- From: SPSSX(r) Discussion [mailto:SPSSX-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Dale Glaser Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 11:19 AM To: SPSSX-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU Subject: Comments on SPSS documentation

In the years of using SPSS since mainframe days, and the few years I have been on this listserv, I have never used this as a forum for gripes, but I'd like to register a minor one and see if I'm in the minority!! This past week I had the opportunity to use PLUM for proportional odds modeling (AKA: ordinal regression). When I accessed the manuals to aid in interpretation of the Threshold and Location parameters, they are woefully amiss in shedding any insight. Though I had a suspicion that the Threshold parameters are calculated similarly to how the same parameters are calculated via PRELIS for deriving the polychoric correlation matrix, I wanted unequivocal confirmation of such, which the manuals do not do (though I can always access the statistical algorithms if need be). That being said, doesn't it seem in the "good old days" the SPSS manuals actually were fairly illuminating in the mathematical/statistical details in the output? I actually found them, alongside other texts, to be very educational. Nowadays, the manuals are just on the CD and even then , they are nothing more than details on point-and-click. Reading Long's "Regression Models for Categorical and Limited Dependent Variables" last night made very clear the interpretation for both the proportional odds model and multinomial logistic model, but it would be nice to have that level of information in the SPSS manuals.

Just a comment/frustration that I wonder if other SPSS users also have........thank you...Dale

Glaser Consulting Dale Glaser, Ph.D. Consultant/Lecturer (SDSU/USD/AIU) 4003 Goldfinch St, Suite G San Diego, CA 92103 phone: 619-220-0602 fax: 619-220-0412 email: glaserconsult@sbcglobal.net website: www.glaserconsult.com


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