Date:         Thu, 10 Feb 2005 14:57:41 -0500
Reply-To:     Nathaniel_Wooding@DOM.COM
Sender:       "SAS(r) Discussion" <SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From:         Nat Wooding <Nathaniel_Wooding@DOM.COM>
Subject:      Re: Edward Tufte
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

As I recall, someone asked him how he produced one of his graphs and he
said that he used Adobe Illustrator.

My reaction to this was that he was approaching each graph as a unique
effort and was willing to make it a work of art.  I, however, often need to
do multiple batch graphs or repeat them every so many months and I don't
see Illustrator as a solution. As far as I'm concerned,  the ideas that he
espouses can still make my batch SAS graphs and presentations better. As
much as he does not like PowerPoint, I still think that it has a useful
function when used thoughtfully and with suitable handouts containing
backup material

Nat



                      Peter Flom
                      <flom@NDRI.ORG>          To:       SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
                      Sent by: "SAS(r)         cc:
                      Discussion"              Subject:  Re: Edward Tufte
                      <SAS-L@LISTSERV.U
                      GA.EDU>


                      02/10/05 02:47 PM
                      Please respond to
                      Peter Flom






When I took his course (about 8 years ago), I asked what one could do
with standard software (not Excel, but e.g. SAS, or something)

He said, in essence, that not much could be done, and that I should
hire a graphics designer.


Peter

>>> Jack Hamilton <jfh@STANFORDALUMNI.ORG> 2/10/2005 2:40:03 PM >>>
At 09:01 am 2/10/2005 -0800, Choate, Paul@DDS wrote:

>Kevin - IMHO -
>
>While interesting, I didn't find much information for practical
application.
>I found most of his presentation devoid of much true insight other
than he
>doesn't like Microsoft Office applications, especially PowerPoint. In
>Tufte's world we would all be graphics artists with abundant time and
>resources to create unique, artful and inspiring presentations.

Paul and I have a disagreement here, as we do about the proper place
of
Excel in data manipulation and presentation.

I would say that Tufte's basic point is that you don't need to be, and
shouldn't be, fancy.  You should use the minimum amount of ink needed
to
convey the information you want to convey.  In practical terms, you'll
end
up doing less work by following Tufte's guidelines, not more.
Sometimes an
enormous amount of effort is expended adding what Tufte calls "chart
junk",
elements of graphs and charts that look fancy but actually add
information.

When I took the class, he didn't spend much time on MS Office (maybe
none
at all), so perhaps the emphasis of the course has changed over the
years.

The class changed the way I think about data presentation, and I
highly
recommend it.



>He makes good points on the importance of clarity and depth in
information
>presentation.  I own his three books and a very humorous paper on
PowerPoint
>and occasionally leaf through them.  They are good coffee table
books.
>
>hth
>
>Paul Choate
>DDS Data Extraction
>(916) 654-2160
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: SAS(r) Discussion [mailto:SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of
Kevin
>Roland Viel
>Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 2:28 PM
>To: SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>Subject: OT: Edward Tufte
>
>I am considering taking the one-day course offered by Edward Tufte.
Has
>anyone taken the course on the visual display of data or another of
his
>courses?  Is it a good investment?
>
>http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/courses
>
>Thanks,
>
>Kevin
>
>
>Kevin Viel
>Department of Epidemiology
>Rollins School of Public Health
>Emory University
>Atlanta, GA 30322
>
>
>
>
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-----
Jack Hamilton
jfh@alumni.stanford.org
Sacramento, California