Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 09:13:40 -0600
Reply-To: Alan Churchill <savian001@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: "SAS(r) Discussion" <SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Alan Churchill <savian001@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Extensive SAS Library
In-Reply-To: <668936B243AC5F4DB61EAE1878E9302708D4038D@mailbe1.westat.com>
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Randy,
I think a hammer vs my statement is not a valid comparison. Building
techniques haven't varied much over the years yet technology varies
continually.
The statement as to speed of development is interesting. On one hand I agree
but I can normally get a nice UI in place reading SAS datasets in around 15
minutes or less. 5 mins vs 15 mins isn't a dramatic difference (assuming AF
dev in 5 mins).
So why would someone want a different framework than AF?
- web services support
- more robust toolset
- massive 3rd party vendor support
- much faster development for complex functionality
- robust XML support
- better IDE
- $0 cost for IDE and framework
- framework already installed on most Windows machines
- most code runs the same on Windows or Web
- AF future uncertainty
- etc.
I could go on but the list could take a bit of time. What you save up-front,
IMO, is not worth what it costs later.
But we can disagree. Many folks are very comfortable in AF and that's fine.
If it works in your shop, so be it. I find pitching SAS with a .NET
front-end to be very compelling to a lot of customers because they have
development staff that can support .NET. Also, the apps look great and are
feature rich.
Alan
Alan Churchill
Savian "Bridging SAS and Microsoft Technologies"
www.savian.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Herbison [mailto:RandyHerbison@westat.com]
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 8:56 AM
To: Alan Churchill; SAS-L@listserv.uga.edu
Subject: RE: Extensive SAS Library
Alan wrote "SCL, AF, FSP, Insight, etc. are old, old technologies. The
future is elsewhere. Same reason I tossed my Rexx and TSO books. They
simply are not relevant in today's world."
My hammer is pretty old technology too, but I still find it useful.
Using SAS/AF, it is still possible to develop a GUI to SAS more easily
and quickly than can be done with Visual Studio.
-Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-sas-l@listserv.uga.edu [mailto:owner-sas-l@listserv.uga.edu]
On Behalf Of Alan Churchill
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 12:06 AM
To: SAS-L@listserv.uga.edu
Subject: RE: Extensive SAS Library
I tossed all of my SAS manuals 10 years ago. Didn't offer them to
anyone, just tossed them.
SAS is a different beast today. While the Base manuals still have some
interest to some, the online docs suffice for everything IMO. Print goes
stale so fast that having a manual doesn't matter much. SAS moves slower
than many languages so there are some good concepts but I agree with Joe
that it doesn't matter much.
SAS's future has been bound by forces outside of its direct control for
several years: J2EE, .NET, SOA, regex, et al. SAS is now being wrapped
by other technologies. The core remains the same but for a SAS person,
the move should be toward learning the wrapping technologies.
SCL, AF, FSP, Insight, etc. are old, old technologies. The future is
elsewhere. Same reason I tossed my Rexx and TSO books. They simply are
not relevant in today's world.
Next up will be HTML and JavaScript books. I have looked forward to that
day for a decade as well...may have to have a book burning in my
fireplace...
Alan
Alan Churchill
Savian "Bridging SAS and Microsoft Technologies"
www.savian.net
-----Original Message-----
From: SAS(r) Discussion [mailto:SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Joe
Whitehurst
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 9:39 PM
To: SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Extensive SAS Library
Jules,
I am a practicing psychologist who has a passion for SAS as a hobby with
a similarly extensive library of SAS manuals, papers, course notes,
binders, etc. and, in addition, a complete set of "Observations" with
the index. The content of the library goes back as far as the late
70's. As difficult as you might find this to believe, unless you are
targeting someone who is interested in the history of the development of
the SAS System Documentation, I fail to see how any of this material
will be useful to anyone. SAS spends a lot of money on R&D and anyone
serious about doing serious work with SAS ought to keep their attention
focused on the latest
online documentation from SAS Institute. SAS might have inspired the
movie
"Transformers". Anyone interested in using SAS effectively needs to
understand that SAS is changing rapidly.
Joe
On 7/7/07, nr <newsreader@midsouth.rr.com> wrote:
>
> How about donating to a college that uses SAS in it's courses?
>
