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Date:   Tue, 29 Jul 2008 22:39:32 +0530
Reply-To:   Ajay ohri <ohri2007@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:   "SAS(r) Discussion" <SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From:   Ajay ohri <ohri2007@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:   Fwd: [SAS-L] Moderator /Spam debate
Comments:   To: jkelley@uga.edu
In-Reply-To:   <1217349568.19342.1265946361@webmail.messagingengine.com>
Content-Type:   text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi,

I would like to kill spam on the SAS-L lists and am volunteering for free .

My background is here-http://www.linkedin.com/in/ajohri

The discussion on SAS-L list which led to this is below.

Also, let me know if we can connect on Linkedin as I am an open networker.

Regards,

Ajay www.decisionstats.com

The reasonable man tries to adapt himself to his surroundings. The unreasonable man tries to adapt his surroundings to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. G.B.Shaw ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jack Hamilton <jfh@alumni.stanford.org> Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 09:39:28 -0700 Subject: Re: [SAS-L] Moderator /Spam debate To: Ajay ohri <ohri2007@gmail.com>

What you should do, if you want to proceed, is to contact Joe Kelley, the only SAS-L list owner who still uses SAS, and ask him what changes UGA might be willing to make on its email server. My impression is "none", but that might be outdated. His address is <jkelley@UGA.EDU>.

On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 21:27:21 +0530, "Ajay ohri" <ohri2007@gmail.com> said: > ok. > > On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 9:06 PM, Jack Hamilton > <jfh@alumni.stanford.org>wrote: > > > > > On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 13:21:58 +0530, "Ajay ohri" <ohri2007@GMAIL.COM> > > said: > > > Hey Jack, > > > > > > Comments below. > > > > > > Ajay > > > India > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 9:17 AM, Jack Hamilton > > > <jfh@alumni.stanford.org>wrote: > > > > > > > On Jul 28, 2008, at 5:17 pm, Ajay ohri wrote: > > > > > > > > It seems the only way to stop this kind of spam is to click the spam > > > >> button (and not just the delete button) for sender. > > > >> > > > >> Spamming is a business , nothing person about it, its just an illegal > > > >> direct marketing channel .Spammers rely on getting say a 00.002 % > > > >> response rate ,and price their services like that. > > > >> > > > >> Gmail's filter /label system works better than both live.com and > > > >> yahoo.com spam measures , but that's my opinion. > > > >> > > > >> I disagree that technically there can not be an automated spam filter. > > > >> Just like it is programmed to subscribe /unsubscribe for certain > > > >> words.It can be programmed to delete spam. > > > >> > > > > > > > > Many smart people have tried to solve the spam problem, and failed. > > > > > > Lets be realistic, and aim for reduction rather than elimination here. > > > Spam > > > messages (historic) can be counted by simple Googling of keywords of > > > SAS-L > > > archives to measure the monthly reduction.Or Trends. > > > > > > I don't think it's as simple as that. Spammers work hard to make it > > difficult to detect spam heuristically. > > > > You remind me of an old acquaintance who didn't understand why public > > key cryptography is so difficult - after all, how difficult could it be > > to defactor a few numbers? > > > > > > > > You need one good web expert with some expertise in creating a spam > > > >> filter. Or a seperate web address to forward the spam to. That's ways > > > >> you can program the server to put it into spam box ,if number of spam > > > >> messages/requests automatically cross say 50. Plus it would be fun > > > >> too. > > > >> > > > > > > > > Are you volunteering to write the filters, keep them updated, persuade > > > > system administrators to install them, and handle the problems that > > arise in > > > > a timely fashion? > > > > > > > > > I volunteer to write version 1 of filters . Keywords "*uck, b**bs, etc" > > > with > > > an auto email to sender and noting down IP address to contact Internet > > > Service Provider. Modification of Communit'es opt in /opt out privacy > > > policy.Keywords to be approved by SAS Executive Board or some community > > > nominated body (based on number of contributions made in past as per > > > analysis sent some time earlier). > > > > > > It's not my impression that contacting either spammers or their ISPs > > will do much good. They use throwaway email addresses, change them > > often, and use ISPs that don't care about the spam problem as long as > > they get paid. > > > > > > > I will maintain this in month of July. Thus we need 12 volunteers. > > > > > > For version 1.1 we will find another volunteer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think newcomers don't realize how complicated, both technically and > > > > administratively, Usenet is. SAS-L is a fusion of both a multi-peered > > > > mailing list and a gateway-ed newsgroup. It's currently not possible > > > > (administratively and technically) to keep the newsgroup and mailing > > list in > > > > sync while eliminating spam. Barring a rewrite of the news software, I > > > > doubt if it ever will be. > > > > > > > > > > Okay lets do a rewrite. > > > Legacy software is a traditional systems problem Application to community > > > networks will be an interesting systems white paper for me.or > > > collobrators. > > > > > > I agree that abolishing SAS-L would reduce the amount of spam coming > > through SAS-L, but I think the cure is worse than the disease. > > > > And that's what you're talking about doing. Neither the usenet news > > servers nor the SAS-L mail servers are under the direct control of > > anyone who reads this group. If you want something you can control, > > you'll have to start over. > > > > Detecting spam is technically very difficult. Changing the status of > > newsgroups and mailing list servers is administratively very difficult. > > > > > > > > But the SAS-L BOF at SUGI/SGloF is the the place to bring this up. > > > > > > > > > > > > I wont be attending that unless you decide to hold that in India. We > > will > > > > throw the Taj Mahal for free (touch wood). > > > > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Just my 0.01 $ > > > >> > > > >> Regards, > > > >> > > > >> Ajay > > > >> > > > >> Impossible is nothing > > > >> > > > >> On 7/29/08, Jack Hamilton <jfh@stanfordalumni.org> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> Comp.soft-sys.sas is a news group, but SAS-L is a mailing list. > > There's > > > >>> also a web interface through Google, and some ISPs provide their > > own > > > >>> front > > > >>> end. > > > >>> > > > >>> But the parent of all these was a mailing list, not a newsgroup. > > > >>> > > > >>> There are now 3 (I think) peered mail servers, which do have owners. > > > >>> > > > >>> The appropriate place to discuss this is probably the SAS-L BOF at > > the > > > >>> new > > > >>> incarnation of SUGI. Basically, there aren't any good options > > currently. > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> -- > > > >>> Jack Hamilton > > > >>> jfh@alumni.stanford.org > > > >>> > > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > > >>> From: Eric <eric@DEPTJ.DEMON.CO.UK> > > > >>> Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 9:58 AM > > > >>> To: SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU > > > >>> Subject: Re: [SAS-L] Amateurs web camchat > > > >>> > > > >>> On 2008-07-26, Sukumar <sukumar.baishya@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>>> On Jul 25, 8:59 am, hiramj...@gmail.com wrote: > > > >>>> > > > >>>>> Amateurs web camchathttp://tubepenthouse.servik.com/view_cam.htm > > > >>>>> > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Dear All, > > > >>>> I simply do not understand who sends this kind of worthless posts to > > > >>>> this forum. This is a forum of busy and serious (i mean, with sense > > of > > > >>>> humour of course) people and such sick messages should not be > > posted > > > >>>> here. So whoever is posting, please find your appropriate > > site/forum. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> I would like to know if there is any moderator of this forum and can > > > >>>> they block such kind of messages? > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Regards > > > >>>> > > > >>>> (Sukumar) > > > >>>> > > > >>> > > > >>> This is not a "forum", it is a Usenet newsgroup - your message is in > > 5 > > > >>> different groups, presumably because the message you responded to > > was. > > > >>> > > > >>> Each group exists because the "managers" of a very large number of > > > >>> servers > > > >>> all over the internet have individually decided that their servers > > will > > > >>> accept messages posted to some subset of all the groups that exist, > > > >>> and automatically exchange messages with one another to make them > > widely > > > >>> available. > > > >>> > > > >>> There is no owner, there is no central server, there is no moderator. > > > >>> There is no way to reliably delete a message because some server > > > >>> somewhere > > > >>> will not delete it, in fact most servers do not do deletions because > > of > > > >>> the strong possibility of malicious deletions. > > > >>> > > > >>> If you use a newsreader client instead of the Google interface, there > > > >>> are ways you can block out most undesirable messages, but you have to > > > >>> do it yourself, no-one can do it for you. > > > >>> > > > >>> E > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Jack Hamilton > > Sacramento, California > > jfh@alumni.stanford.org <== Use this, not jfh@stanfordalumni.org > > > >

-- Jack Hamilton Sacramento, California jfh@alumni.stanford.org <== Use this, not jfh@stanfordalumni.org


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