Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:35:37 -0800
Reply-To: Savian <savian.net@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: "SAS(r) Discussion" <SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Savian <savian.net@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: SAS on Mainframe
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Nov 23, 9:28 pm, jrburtonsas...@GMAIL.COM (John Burton) wrote:
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 9:24 PM, Savian <savian....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 19, 1:25 pm, jrburtonsas...@GMAIL.COM (John Burton) wrote:
> >> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 8:49 PM, Savian <savian....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > ISPF was an awesome editor...for its time and in a non-GUI interface.
> >> > Visual Studios is by far the best editor I have ever worked with.
> >> Alan,
> >> The editor I like best now is UltraEdit32. It's very powerful and has
> >> an excellent compare tool to compare two versions of a program (or
> >> data flatfile). Also, it can be configured to look like the SAS
> >> Display Manager editor, but is much, much better.
> >> I haven't tried Visual Studio to see which is better.
> >> Ray Burton
> >> Chattanooga TN
> > Ray,
> > I use UltraEdit every single day and have paid for a lifetime subscription for it and UltraCompare. I have also supported it since almost the beginning. That said, it has no bearing on Visual Studios and is not comparable. If you have to use a raw text editor, go with UE. If you have to deal with supported languages in VS, UE does not stand up for coding.
> > Keep in mind also that VS is something like a 3GB install so it has a boatload of code (and functionality).
> > Once you work with VS it is hard to go back. In comparison to the Enhanced Editor, why can't we type in 'proc' and have a popup appear with all available procs on your machine? Why don't we have have code snippets or drag and drop code segments? Why can't we highlight code and press a comment button to have it comment/uncomment? Why don't we have automatic error detectors or debug stops? Why don't we have debug conditionals? I could go on and on but that list will make my point.
> > At the end of the day, the SAS editor has been abandoned for verticals. SAS focuses more on vertical markets than the underlying coders who make it all happen. Where are the better editors that can and should be built? SAS has the lexical parsers to handle this one so it is in their hands.
> > Off soapbox and out in left field....
> > Alan
> Not having had the chance to experience VS I have been in the dark
> regarding it merits. It sounds like a very capable tool. I look
> forward to the chance to use it. Your suggestions for an advanced
> editor that would enhance our programming is very insightful.
> I too recognize that SAS I. no longer focuses on the coders who get
> the job done instead focusing on those above that level or even those
> with no coding experience at and and no desire whatsoever to
> understand the concepts of logic and programming, just click and drag.
> I have worked with and for many like that. Usually, thier work is
> good for only ad-hoc sort of report generation and many times once the
> data or logic has been validated, it is left lacking due to logic
> errors or inefficient design.
> Off my soapbox, too.
> I will have to look into VS and hope to find a place enlightened
> enough to allow its use.
> Best Cheers,
> Ray- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
SAS has opted to play with the big boys and put themselves against GUI
powerhouses. Will they succeed? Tough to say but GUIs are not their
forte. SAS has some of the most competent folks I have ever met, no
pandering here, but they are thinkers, not pretty widget folks. Let
the pretty widget people build it and simply work within their
What SAS has not done is to create tools to make it easier to code in
SAS. The focus of EG was for analysts, not coders. Where is the SAS
editor that enables intellisense or code snippets? Not available.
Please, oh please, have SAS stop running after 'this obscure vertical
market' and focus a few folks on building an editor or, better yet,
adding it into a toolkit like Eclipse or Visual Studios. I tried to do
it but I don't have all of the lexical parsers for the language.
IMO, SAS needs to embrace their language and love the coders. We make
it happen, love the language, and have for decades. Where is an editor
that we can use?