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Date:         Sat, 1 May 2010 15:09:06 -0400
Reply-To:     Phil Rack <PhilRack@MINEQUEST.COM>
Sender:       "SAS(r) Discussion" <SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From:         Phil Rack <PhilRack@MINEQUEST.COM>
Organization: MineQuest, LLC
Subject:      Re: Friday OT: Computer Transitions
Comments: To: Arthur Tabachneck <art297@NETSCAPE.NET>
In-Reply-To:  <201005011858.o41AmoXM003751@malibu.cc.uga.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
              reply-type=original

Thanks Art. When I did the search on Lex's site earlier, I didn't see that.

Phil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Tabachneck" <art297@NETSCAPE.NET> To: <SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>; "Phil Rack" <PhilRack@MINEQUEST.COM> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 2:58 PM Subject: Re: Friday OT: Computer Transitions

> Phil, > > There may have been others, but I know that there was at least one: > > http://support.sas.com/resources/papers/proceedings10/329-2010.pdf > or, in short form: http://xrl.us/bhjv56 > > Art > --------- > On Sat, 1 May 2010 14:04:22 -0400, Philip Rack <PhilRack@MINEQUEST.COM> > wrote: > >>I don't know if adding R to SAS/IML Studio means that SAS admits defeat on >>the IML product. It might just be easier to embrace R instead of ignoring >>it. >> >>Which leads to this observation. I was out searching Lex Jansen's > excellent >>site for any papers from the last SGF that discussed using R from inside >>SAS/IML Studio and didn't find anything. Could be my search abilities but > I >>thought that there would have been something along those lines. >> >>As others have pointed out to me, it's one thing to offer it, but quite >>another to encourage its use. >> >>Philip Rack >>MineQuest, LLC >>SAS & WPS Consulting and WPS Reseller >>Tel: (614) 457-3714 >>Web: www.MineQuest.com >>Blog: www.MineQuest.com/WordPress >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: SAS(r) Discussion [mailto:SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of > oloolo >>Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2010 1:06 PM >>To: SAS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU >>Subject: Re: Friday OT: Computer Transitions >> >>Art >> as a matter of fact, I am trying my best to implement some useful data >>mining algorithms in SAS, using only SAS/Base and /STAT if possible. I >>think this is where we can do our part, but that's do no good to SAS's >>business model. Suppose some users is able to provide good enough >>alternative to EM... >> But as you know, it is much more difficult to implement these > algorithms >>in SAS than using functional programming languages. >> I think one work around is to use JavaObj to move data between SAS/Base >>and Java and use Java to implement the algorithms. This is indeed for >>hardcore coders. Another way is let SAS to incorporate /IML into SAS/Base >>and provide better support for this product [to be frankly, I think the >>fact that they provide seamless interface in /IMLStudio to R means they >>admit /IML is defeated by R] >> >> >>On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 13:55:36 -0400, Arthur Tabachneck > <art297@NETSCAPE.NET> >>wrote: >> >>>Liang, >>> >>>First, congratulations on winning the SASLROY award. >>> >>>As to your reasoning for using R, I don't disagree, but see that as a >>>major problem that SAS has to realize and realize the impact. >>> >>>That leads to my disagreement with your initial comment. Many of us >>>have devoted far too much into becoming SAS professionals to simply sit >>>back and wait for "the guys at SAS to figure it out first." >>> >>>The reason I am trying to organize interest in presenting it as a forum >>>for SGF11 is to do what I can to get SAS to change their business model >>>and become more aware of its users concerns. Yes, we can all simply >>>adopt different and more affordable solutions but, in many instances, >>>that is like throwing the baby out with the bath water. As a parent, I >>>would never do that and, as a SAS user, I don't want to be forced to do >>>it. >>> >>>Art >>>-------- >>>On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 12:34:02 -0400, oloolo <dynamicpanel@YAHOO.COM> >>>wrote: >>> >>>>Let the guys at SAS to figure it out first >>>>I am using R for whatever SAS doens't provide or charges huge fees >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 08:04:42 -0700, Jack Hamilton >>><jfh@STANFORDALUMNI.ORG> >>>>wrote: >>>>>Good point. >>>>> >>>>>I think we're trying to figure out what SAS needs to do to get past >>>item >>>>#1. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>-- >>>>>Jack Hamilton >>>>>jfh@alumni.stanford.org >>>>>Caelum non animum mutant qui trans mare currunt. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>On Apr 30, 2010, at 5:40 , Vandenbroucke, David A wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Having endured computer transitions from punch cards, CP/M, etc., >>>>the "SAS Global Forum" and "R is and Epic Fail" threads remind me of >>>this >>>>sequence: >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. It just doesn't address the professional's needs... >>>>>> 2. There's too much of an installed base... >>>>>> 3. There will always be a place for... >>>>>> 4. That's more popular, but I prefer to us... >>>>>> 5. It's not too bad once you get used to... >>>>>> 6. There are really some clever features... >>>>>> 7. Yeah, I used to use that a lot, before... >>>>>> >>>>>> Of course, there were also technologies that were a flash in the >>>pan, >>>>which nobody much remembers anymore. >>>>>> >>>>>> Dav Vandenbroucke >>>>>> Senior Economist >>>>>> U.S. Dept. HUD >>>>>> david.a.vandenbroucke@hud.gov >>>>>> 202-402-5890 >>>>>> >>>>>> I disclaim any disclaimers.


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