Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 16:13:36 -0400
Reply-To: Art@DrKendall.org
Sender: "SPSSX(r) Discussion" <SPSSX-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Art Kendall <Art@DrKendall.org>
Organization: Social Research Consultants
Subject: Re: Auto indent syntax option
In-Reply-To: <OF45E414B8.1C7E9BE7-ON8725779F.0050850D-8725779F.0051A205@us.ibm.com>
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Great! I did not notice that in the Beta. <br>
<br>
What about some of the other features I have suggested over the
years such as conventional/symbolic operators; space around
arithmetic, assignment and logical operators; and vertical alignment
of assignment operators? Are those possible PYTHON functions until
they get put into the actual editor options?<br>
<br>
I understand that a font that made parentheses, angle brackets,
periods, commas equal signs, exclamations points, more visible would
be more difficult in non-English languages. Does PYTHON have bolding
and character enlargement that would appear in the syntax editor,
even if it would not appear in posts that don't use HTML?<br>
<br>
<br>
As you know I have a big soap box about human factors (aka
usability) in programs.<br>
<br>
Art Kendall<br>
Social Research Consultants<br>
<br>
On 9/15/2010 10:51 AM, Jon K Peck wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:OF45E414B8.1C7E9BE7-ON8725779F.0050850D-8725779F.0051A205@us.ibm.com"
type="cite">
<br>
<font size="2" face="sans-serif">Bear in mind that Statistics 19
does
have an autoindent feature in the syntax editor. More could be
done
here, but this may be helpful.</font>
<br>
<br>
<font size="2" face="sans-serif">Jon Peck<br>
SPSS, an IBM Company<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:peck@us.ibm.com">peck@us.ibm.com</a><br>
312-651-3435</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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<td><font size="1" color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif">From:</font>
</td>
<td><font size="1" face="sans-serif">Art Kendall
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Art@DrKendall.org"><Art@DrKendall.org></a></font>
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<td><font size="1" color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif">To:</font>
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<td><font size="1" face="sans-serif"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:SPSSX-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU">SPSSX-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU</a></font>
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<td><font size="1" color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif">Date:</font>
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<td><font size="1" face="sans-serif">09/15/2010 08:35 AM</font>
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<td><font size="1" color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif">Subject:</font>
</td>
<td><font size="1" face="sans-serif">Re: [SPSSX-L] Auto
indent syntax option</font>
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<td><font size="1" color="#5f5f5f" face="sans-serif">Sent
by:</font>
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<td><font size="1" face="sans-serif">"SPSSX(r) Discussion"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:SPSSX-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU"><SPSSX-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU></a></font></td>
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<hr noshade="noshade">
<br>
<br>
<br>
<font size="3">Thank you.<br>
<br>
If by "optional extra" you mean extra money, then I would
disagree.
It should be a prominent button and or a set of options in
defaults the
way the options for colors are.<br>
<br>
David is an extremely skilled programmer and seemingly still
finds the
vertical alignment useful despite years of experience as an
expert programmer.
The editor should make it easy to produce syntax that follows
good
programming practices. That way even beginners can produce the
readable
code that communicates to people as well as to the machine.<br>
<br>
Art Kendall<br>
Social Research Consultants<br>
<br>
On 9/14/2010 7:12 PM, Gary Oliver wrote: </font>
<br>
<font size="2" color="blue" face="Arial">Hi Art</font>
<br>
<font size="3"> </font>
<br>
<font size="2" color="blue" face="Arial">I really like your idea
of having
a separate process to automate the indentation. I think that
having it
as an "optional extra" would allow it to be used as a useful
visual check i.e. do the coding then run the pretty program and
re-inspect
the code. Your point about losing the colours is also germaine.</font>
<br>
<font size="3"> </font>
<br>
<font size="2" color="blue" face="Arial">I hope SPSS is listening!</font>
<br>
<font size="3"> </font>
<br>
<font size="2" color="blue" face="Arial">Warm regards/gary</font>
<br>
<br>
<hr><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b> SPSSX(r) Discussion
[</font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:SPSSX-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU"><font size="2"
color="blue" face="Tahoma"><u>mailto:SPSSX-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU</u></font></a><font
size="2" face="Tahoma">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Art Kendall<b><br>
Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 15, 2010 12:40 AM<b><br>
To:</b> </font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:SPSSX-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU"><font size="2"
color="blue" face="Tahoma"><u>SPSSX-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU</u></font></a><font
size="2" face="Tahoma"><b><br>
Subject:</b> Re: + at beginning of syntax line</font><font
size="3"><br>
</font>
<br>
<font size="3">In 1971 DEC FORTRAN had a program called PRETTY
that automated
such indentation for vertical alignment.<br>
I like the visual improvement to the syntax editor but would
like more,<br>
I have frequently suggested have a PRETTY program for SPSS
syntax.<br>
It would include availability of casing (ALL UC, Leading Caps,
all
lc) for procedures/operators, options/op; <i>conversion of
symbolic operators
to/from conventional operator especially to avoid the distinct
uses of
the equal sign;</i> automated vertical alignment via
indentation; <i>vertical
alignment of assignment operators;</i> spaces either side of
assignment
operators; <i>a font that made angle brackets, commas, periods,
etc. very
much more visually distinct;etc.</i><br>
(I went back and italicized features that were not there in
1971.)<br>
<br>
These would help within SPSS and be retained (unlike the colors)
when pasted
into newsgroups, discussion list, and private emails for reviews
or seeking/giving
help.<br>
<br>
Art Kendall<br>
Social Research Consultants<br>
<br>
On 9/12/2010 4:59 AM, David Marso wrote: </font>
<br>
<tt><font size="3">Jan<br>
<br>
If you worked with syntax from the beginning, and didn't try
to run before<br>
</font></tt>
<br>
<tt><font size="3">you can even crawl, you would have picked up
already
that the + indicates a<br>
continuation line.<br>
</font></tt>
<br>
<tt><font size="3">Like I said, "More haste, less speed."<br>
<br>
John<br>
</font></tt>
<br>
<tt><font size="3">OK, first off John, no need to be RUDE! Other
people have already pointed<br>
that out so I will refrain from additional chastising.<br>
<br>
OTOH, you should slow down yourself and NOT add injury to
insult by<br>
following such with INCORRECT information!<br>
"+ indicates a continuation line. "<br>
<br>
NO!!!!!!!! It does NOT!<br>
I am surprised that I'm the first one to point this out to
you!<br>
<br>
It actually indicates that a COMMAND which should NORMALLY
begin in column
1<br>
(if run as "batch" or via INCLUDE FILE ) is indented.<br>
Yes, some people actually indent code to indicate logical
structure and
aid<br>
in debugging and preservation of sanity.<br>
Have you ever run into something like this?<br>
<br>
DO IF Blah.<br>
LOOP #=1 to 20<br>
LOOP ##= 2 to 25.<br>
DO IF # AND ##<br>
COMPUTE BARF.<br>
ELSE IF NOT (# OR ##).<br>
DO IF Blah AND ##.<br>
RECODE XXX (poop=piss)(else=0).<br>
ELSE.<br>
COMPUTE Whatever.<br>
END IF<br>
END IF<br>
END LOOP.<br>
END LOOP.<br>
ELSE.<br>
COMPUTE OOPS=0.<br>
END IF.<br>
------------------<br>
Well, that is purely unacceptable for both aesthetic and
professional<br>
reasons, unless one's goal is job preservation through
perpetuation of<br>
unreadable code.<br>
So:<br>
DO IF Blah.<br>
+ LOOP #=1 to 20<br>
- LOOP ##= 2 to 25.<br>
+ DO IF # AND ##<br>
- COMPUTE BARF.<br>
+ ELSE IF NOT (# OR ##).<br>
- DO IF Blah AND ##.<br>
+ RECODE XXX (poop=piss)(else=0).<br>
- ELSE.<br>
+ COMPUTE Whatever.<br>
- END IF<br>
+ END IF<br>
- END LOOP.<br>
+ END LOOP.<br>
ELSE.<br>
- COMPUTE OOPS=0.<br>
END IF.<br>
<br>
Continuation line? I think not!<br>
OTOH, as Jon Peck points out, INCLUDE is legacy, use INSERT so
no need
for<br>
column 1 signifiers.<br>
<br>
I am pretty sure I DON'T agree with that statement.<br>
I am using version 11.5 and don't plan to upgrade anytime soon
even though<br>
Python looks appealing . OMS looks interesting too, but
nothing I
can't do<br>
with AGGREGATE or scripting-.<br>
You can keep the BFugly Java GUI. WTF were they thinking with
that
ugly<br>
monstrosity?<br>
<br>
CASESTOVARS AND VARSTOCASES are for pussies;-)!<br>
I can't determine prices for SPSS on the website but I bet it
would run
me<br>
several thousand dollars.<br>
<br>
Are there not still older mainframe or unix versions of SPSS
running?<br>
I write code which will work on **ALL** versions of SPSS (back
to 6.1.4,<br>
6.1.4 because MACRO was hopeless (totally hosed/fundamentally<br>
broken/unpredictable wrt line wrapping/rectocranially
inverted) until Tex<br>
Hull fixed it after about 2 years of my pleading with the
development people<br>
to fix the damned thing (this was circa 1994 or 95?- -poor
tables
users-<br>
You can imagine the BFugly workarounds required for that.
OTOH, most
of<br>
them were marketing research types so I had very little (read
NO) sympathy<br>
for their screwed up table titles.. Sorry, do it by
hand...(Yeah, service<br>
with a smile and a BOO HISS behind the mute button. I really
loved
talking<br>
to the barely functional robots from the IRS and the military!
**NOT**
OTOH,<br>
I'm not absolutely sure that I'd want the IRS to be hiring
SMART people
??<br>
They'll likely find another 100 ways to fuck you over, novel
data<br>
analytical strategies for merge and putge DING DING DING
AUDIT!!).<br>
David<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, 6 Sep 2010 20:42:15 +0200, John F Hall </font></tt><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:johnfhall@orange.fr"><tt><font
size="3" color="blue"><u><johnfhall@orange.fr></u></font></tt></a><tt><font
size="3">
wrote:<br>
<br>
</font></tt>
<br>
<tt><font size="3">Jan<br>
<br>
If you worked with syntax from the beginning, and didn't try
to run before<br>
</font></tt>
<br>
<tt><font size="3">you can even crawl, you would have picked up
already
that the + indicates a<br>
continuation line.<br>
</font></tt>
<br>
<tt><font size="3">Like I said, "More haste, less speed."<br>
<br>
John<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: J McClure<br>
To: </font></tt><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:SPSSX-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU"><tt><font size="3"
color="blue"><u>SPSSX-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU</u></font></tt></a><tt><font
size="3"><br>
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 7:26 PM<br>
Subject: + at beginning of syntax line<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi,<br>
I don't know who to direct this to but I was mystified by the
'+' sign<br>
at the beginning of the line for certain syntax (loops, do if
etc) and<br>
I'd like to suggest that the purpose be added to the Command
Syntax<br>
Reference Guide. I searched the Guide several times (very
tedious<br>
because there are many, many + signs in the document) and gave
up after<br>
awhile. I searched the internet a number of times and found
only<br>
examples but no explanations. I asked my husband who knows a
dozen<br>
computer languages and he didn't know the purpose. I finally
did a<br>
slightly different search and found the answer in an online
tutorial at<br>
</font></tt><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.stat-help.com/spss.pdf"><tt><font size="3"
color="blue"><u>http://www.stat-help.com/spss.pdf</u></font></tt></a><tt><font
size="3">.<br>
Thanks for all the help provided on this site! It's been
immensely<br>
valuable.<br>
Jan<br>
<br>
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