-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: 264 dates for maps
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 17:02:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Paige G Andrew <[log in to unmask]>
To: Air Photo Maps, GIS Forum - Map Librarianship <[log in to unmask]>
Nancy,
My blunder on use of square brackets, I apologize. RDA 2.2.2 is on
Sources of information, and at the end of the General Guidelines at
2.2.2.1 it says:
"If information required for the identification of the resource is not
available from a source forming part of the resource itself, take it
from another source as instructed under 2.2.4."
Then going on to 2.2.4 it says, after the list of where to attempt to
find information from sources, that you should supply information either
by use square brackets or a note to indicate that information was taken
from outside the resource, accompanying material, an external resource,
etc.:
"If information taken from a source outside the resource itself is
supplied in any of the elements listed below, indicate that fact either
by means of a note or by some other means (e.g., through coding or the
use of square brackets)."
So, disregard my previous fas paux and thanks for catching that!
As to your question about when you have date for one kind/type of
element situation or the other, it should be used for the type of date
that it is; production, publication, distribution, or manufacture in the
appropriately-tagged (Indicator value) for the 246 and with its similar
production, publication, distribution, or manufacture data [place :
name]. As you well indicated, there could also be a separate
manufacturing statement without a specific manufacturing date, and it is
fine NOT to provide a date in that field, just as you indicated. When I
was mentioning using a different date as an inferred publication date
the most common scenario I have found is that the copyright date in a
264 _4 field is provided as an inferred publication date, in square
brackets, in a 264 _1 field as well. I have been told that this isn't
explicit in RDA but its also not incorrect as long as you use square
brackets. Perhaps that "practice" or "best practice" will either get
documented or wil!
l go away? Time will tell...
Paige
----- Original Message -----
From: "Angie Cope, American Geographical Society Library, UW Milwaukee"
<[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 4:17:08 PM
Subject: Re: 264 dates for maps
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: 264 dates for maps
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 16:13:03 -0400
From: Nancy Kandoian <[log in to unmask]>
To: Maps, Air Photo, GIS Forum - Map Librarianship
<[log in to unmask]>
Paige (and all) --
Regarding your comment:
The nice thing about RDA is that even if you have to go as far as
finding information outside
of the resource itself you're allowed to input it into an RDA-based
record without square brackets,
in RDA, don't you have to put info that you get from outside of the
resource in square brackets? Or is there a subtle difference between
info outside the resource that definitely relates to the resource, and
info from outside the resource that is the basis for a supposition you make?
And regarding Bojana's question about whether one must populate all the
264 date fields, I also have been wondering, say you have info about
publisher and manufacturer, like the place and name for each, and you
have the date or a good educated guess about the date of one or the
other, should you populate the subfield c for each, or just for the one
that you have the info for? For example, would it be okay to do this
(sort of like 260 $a $b $c $e $f in AACR2):
264_1 Washington : $b General Land Office, $c 1876.
264_3 [New York] : $b Julius Bien.
Or should you have a $c for each 264 in your record?
Nancy Kandoian
NYPL Map Div.
On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 2:14 PM, Angie Cope, American Geographical
Society Library, UW Milwaukee <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: 264 dates for maps
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 14:03:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Paige G Andrew <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
To: Air Photo Maps, GIS Forum - Map Librarianship
<[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Bojana,
Yes, the 264 field and how its to be used is different and more
complex
than the 260 field. I now look at the 260 field as a giant pot
with all
kinds of "stuff" in it (like a witch's brew?), publication data,
manufacturing data, production stuff, and even distribution stuff, all
mixed together. Most often for contemporary maps that stuff is either
publication or distribution data. But, the new 264 field serves to
separate all of the "stuff" in the big pot into separate fields (its
repeatable!), and the type/category of data is determined by the 2nd
Indicator value/number. The one truly "odd" one is 264 _4 for
copyright
date, for the first time this unique date is separatable from other
kinds of "publication" dates and only copyright (or
phonographic/reserved date) data goes into a 264 _4 field.
So, this really is more of a "what goes where, and when" type of
system.
Even Chapter 2 of RDA (for identifying Manifestations) breaks each of
these into separate Instructions depending on the type of data,
ranging
from 2.7 through 2.11.
At the top of the heap is Production data, and Production is
defined in
2.7.1 as "...a statement identifying the place or places of
production,
producer or producers, and date or dates of production of a
resource in
an unpublished form. Production statements include statements relating
to the inscription, fabrication, construction, etc., of a resource
in an
unpublished form." KEY PHRASE here is 'unpublished form'. This is what
you are going to run into most Bojana for historical items. So, first
and foremost, if the resource (map/atlas) you are describing is
unpublished (manuscript) then you use 264 _0 where "0" means
"production
data".
IF what you are working on has been published (and RDA also says
anything online is considered to be published) then you must use 264
with a second Indicator of 1 (publisher data), 2 (distribution
data), or
3 (manufacture data). In each case you work down from one to the next
"if, then" scenario. If you have publication data available then
put it
into its own 264 field, if not then look for distribution data. If you
have no publication data OR distribution data, then use manufacture
data. And the nice thing about all of this is in regards to dates. IF
for instance you have a place of publication and publisher but no
formal
date of publication BUT you have a copyright date available, or more
likely in your case a manufacture date, you can infer a date of
publication by "borrowing" that other date and putting it in square
brackets, as long as you justify it with supplying a 264 field for the
other type of date (and it would be a good idea to also supply a 500
note of justification for other catalogers to better understand).
To get down to your most explicit question of what to do if there's no
date available on the resource, there are some things you can do to at
least come up with an approximate date from a decade or (I don't like
this) century. But let's start with the simplest thing -- no date
available, don't put the fixed field in the record for date. I know
that
rarely passes muster with us map catalogers, so the next thing to
do is
consult either map-specific data such as knowing when names of places
changed at the country/region level for small/smaller scale maps or
digging for things like when a road, bridge, or railroad was built,
or a
specific building for a large/larger scale map. Also look for textual
stuff either part of the map or outside of it, such as "cultural
information to date as of [date]", or sometimes when population
figures
are given as part of a place index there will be an indication, at
least
for U.S. stuff, of which census the population numbers are taken from.
If you can't find anything to assist you that is PART OF the thing you
are cataloging then turn next to other known resources (Google and
similar is definitely a help these days and makes doing that kind of
research typically faster than in the past) online or in print. There
are several people on this list who have a strong grasp of where to
turn
to for traditional print-based resources on things like engravers and
cartographers for historical cartographic materials (Tooley's
dictionary, etc.) and they've even published helpful articles and
similar either on this topic or that includes it. The nice thing about
RDA is that even if you have to go as far as finding information
outside
of the resource itself you're allowed to input it into an RDA-based
record without square brackets. And, every once in awhile you even get
down to questions like "is this rag paper that this map was
drawn/printed on?" because knowing the history of when pulp-based
paper
overtook rag-based paper give's one a reference point for a proposed
date of manufacture or publication.
I'll let others jump in with other helpful/useful information, but to
get to your final question:
"For example, what do you think belongs in the following fields:
264_0 Production date
264_1 Publication date
264_2 Distribution date
264_3 Manufacture date
264_4 Copyright date"
the layout of each field above tells you what goes where. If you
have a
publication date, it goes in 264, second indicator 1; if you have
only a
distribution date it goes in a 264, second indicator 2 and so on. And
remember for the 264 _4 situation ONLY a date goes in that field.
Which
reminds me, IF you have done your best to find either a place of
[publication, distribution, etc.] either from the resource itself or
outside of it, and the same with name of [publisher, distributor,
etc.]
then RDA instructs you to SUPPLY a standard phrase, in square
brackets,
which is either:
[Place of XX not identified] see RDA 2.8.2.6
or
[Publisher [or similar] not identified] see RDA 2.8.4.7 for
"[Publisher
not identified]", other instruction areas for other types of names.
Example:
264 _1 [Place of publication not identified] : $b [Publisher not
identified], $c [18--?]
Hope I didn't muddy the waters too much.
Paige
----- Original Message -----
From: "Angie Cope, American Geographical Society Library, UW
Milwaukee"
<[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 12:48:47 PM
Subject: 264 dates for maps
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: 264 dates for maps
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 14:58:50 +0000
From: Skarich, Bojana <[log in to unmask]
<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>'
<[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Hi All,
In going over the new RDA field 264, I’m having a little trouble
understanding just how to apply this to maps cataloging. I thought I’d
ask the maps cataloging community what you think. Since we’re often
missing a date of publication for maps, does anyone have any tips
on how
to interpret dates on maps in order to populate the 264 field
dates? Is
it even critical for user access to populate all these fields? I
catalog
a lot of rare maps that don’t have a copyright date or a publication
date, in some cases.
For example, what do you think belongs in the following fields:
264_0 Production date
264_1 Publication date
264_2 Distribution date
264_3 Manufacture date
264_4 Copyright date
Thanks for any suggestions you may have on this J
Bojana
Bojana Skarich
Non-Print Catalog Librarian
Michigan State University Libraries
366 W. Circle Drive
East Lansing, MI 48824
517-353-9034 <tel:517-353-9034>
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