Hello Maps-L:
      The question on how to describe the lat/long of a place is
interesting in that it may involve more than appears on the surface. At
first look there is the confusion between a local grid and the
geographical grid.  That is between an arbitrary reference grid of
lines superimposed over a geographical area, and geographical
coordinates tied to the earth, longitude and latitude.  The local grid
is probably going to be read as you would read cartesian coordinates, x
then y.  In the question on Maps-L the x and y of the local grid are
being seen as latitude and longitude.  That is an incorrect way to see
the coordinates as they are not lat/long lines.  But the question does
raise the difference in stating lat/long or long/lat in other
situations.
     In the U.S. it does appear than many use the form of latitude
first, then longitude.  For example look at Robinson and Sale,
"Elements of Cartography," used on most (older) American Geographers as
a beginning level textbook, states "...on the earth's coordinate
system, latitude is usually given first."  Most authors use the phrase
"latitude and longitude," not "longitude and latitude"  Yet if you look
in a newer text, like Muehrckes' "Map Use" you will see positions cited
by longitude then latitude.  In the same paragraph the Muehrckes cite a
place by longitude then latitude and then use the phrase "latitude and
longitude."
     In Ptolemy's "Geography" he puts longitude first, according to
Dilke, "...since he expected the mapmaker to draw the map from left to
right."  In looking at some British WWI trench maps I noted that
positions in the military grid were to be cited easting first, then
northing.  The same system, east reading, then north, is used for the
UTM system.
    So do we have a problem of Europens reading a position long/lat and
Americans reading it as lat/long?  Is it a problem of definations?
Is it a problems of different groups, geographers vs surveyors, using
a system in different ways?  Or is it a problem of how we use language
- in our language we say "latitude and longitude" but we state a
position by longitude then latitude (maybe because Ptolmey?).


John Sutherland
University of Georgia