-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Paper vs. Digital maps --"Building a Distributed Library
of Map Images"
Date: Fri, 06 Mar 2009 20:21:35 +0000
From: Cartographics <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
References: <[log in to unmask]>
A good proportion of surviving maps are or have been contained in a
volume or are otherwise related to a text. The value of Google Books,
and some similar digital projects, is largely lost through their
infuriating policy of either ignoring plates or maps, or scanning them
at the same low resolution as the text. In most cases the result is
virtually worthless to the cartographic community.
Should an alternative repository of digital volumes arise, this vital
point could be addressed. If maps in books cannot be scanned at an
appropriate resolution and remain in their correct position, a link to
an image on a separate 'maps' database would seem to be an acceptable
solution.
Richard Dean
From: Cartographics, 49 Grange Road, Biddulph, Stoke on Trent ST8 7RY,
UK. Out of print maps and plans, UK/worldwide. Established 1969.
E-mail [log in to unmask] Phone 01782-513449 Website
www.cartographics.co.uk Administrators of the Canalmaps Archive
(www.canalmaps.net)
Maps-L Moderator for Scott R. McEathron wrote:
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: RE: Re: Paper vs. Digital maps --"Building a Distributed
> Library of Map Images"
> Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 10:33:22 -0600
> From: McEathron, Scott R <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> References: A<[log in to unmask]>
>
>
>
>
> Colleagues,
>
> Patrick makes some very good points. Now, what are we going to do about
> it (especially numbers 4, 6, and the last paragraph)? It seems to me
> that most of our digitization efforts in the U.S. library community
> (including maps) have been pretty piecemeal. Instead of Google
> shepherding our efforts, shouldn't we? About a month ago I went to use
> paperofrecord.com to try to do some genealogical research within a
> newspaper from Perth, Canada circa 1850 that I knew was online.
> Unfortunately, Google bought paperofrecord.com content for their News
> Archive and the content is now not available. Please read the debate now
> occurring in The New York Review of Books regarding the Google
> settlement (http://www.nybooks.com/authors/32). I like Darnton's
> arguments and wish we had a National Digital Library instead of Google
> Book--but we do not. I am not sure why our library leaders could not
> come up with this, we had the knowledge, technology, and even a lot of
> cooperative organizational structures--just lack the leadership and
> cooperation I guess (leading librarians=herding cats?). Perhaps we
> could be more successful when it comes to the public domain maps?
>
> We are willing to do our piece of the digitization/metadata/storage and
> sometimes geo-referencing and I am sure many others are too. However,
> what would the "umbrella" to the "National Distributed Library of Map
> Images and Geo-spatial Data" look like and work?
>
> Who wants to volunteer to write a white paper and manifesto?
>
> Best wishes,
> Scott R. McEathron
> T. R. Smith Map Collections--University of Kansas Libraries
> 1301 Hoch Auditoria Dr.
> Lawrence, KS 66045-7537
>
> Tel: 785.864.4662
> Fax: 785.864.5705
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: Paper vs. Digital maps
> Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 21:52:34 -0500
> From: Patrick McGlamery <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> References: <[log in to unmask]>
>
>
>
> All;
>
> The discussion goes on and on, as it should. In the meantime consider:
>
> 1. LBS is an emerging technology that moves the user farther from paper
> 2. The long term cost of storing deliverable and archival files,
> through out the years, will dwarf the cost of digitizing (What I learned
> as an IT guy... ) 3. Map images empowered as geo-spatial are greatly
> enhanced information fomats.
> 4. US map libraries have some 250 identical collections (AMS/DMA) that
> are low hanging fruit.
> 5. Leased cloud storage is emerging as a reality.
> 6. GoogleMap, GoogleEarth, where 2.0, OpenGIS offer new solutions that
> can be targeted
>
> Libraries will/should always have unique maps that require special
> attention, however there is a lot of redundancy in our research map
> libraries that can be leveraged cooperatively so that each library does
> not have to scan, catalog and geo-reference their entire collection.
> However, that doesn't mean libraries should go at this piecemeal,
> especially as the map library community is realtively small and
> intimate.
>
> Please take a look at "Building a Distributed Library of Map Images"
> at http://imlsmap.lib.uconn.edu/ as a 'work in process' model.
>
> Patrick
>
> Oh, and BTW, check out this
>
> http://fc64.deviantart.com/fs22/f/2008/002/0/1/World_War_Two__Simple_Ver
> sion_by_AngusMcLeod.jpg
>
> Good map humor.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Maps-L Moderator for David J. Bertuca
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: Paper vs. Digital maps
>> Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 15:45:29 -0500
>> From: David J. Bertuca <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> References: <[log in to unmask]>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi all;
>>
>> I get a kick out of this topic all the time... Monday evening I had a
>> library school Gov't Docs class in for a presentation on gov maps (US,
>
>> State, Int'l, etc) and one thing I always mention in these is that
>> paper AND digital maps have their place and that you can't really go
>> totally one way or the other. Some of the comments so far mention my
>> experience with
>> format:
>>
>> 1. field workers like paper maps because they don't need batteries,
>> they show the entire area, they can be used to make notations of
>> measurements and findings (sometimes on the maps--yikes).
>>
>> 2. digital goes well in class lectures and for presentations
>>
>> I always mention this: "I will gladly go all digital when I get a
>> computer display that is 3 feet x 5 feet in size."
>>
>> Paper maps provide context and surrounding data; electronic ones need
>> scrolling and often compromises in viewing.
>>
>> IF you have a PERFECTLY calibrated display, and IF the electronic map
>> image is PROPERLY calibrated, then MAYBE you can see colors distinctly
>
>> so that judgement errors are removed from viewing. Consider a
>> geological map with
>> 47 shades and what would happen if several shades could not be
>> distinguished separately. Not a big deal for some stuff but geologists
>
>> and engineers kind of need those color distinctions.
>>
>> I am thrilled when I find great maps online and can view stuff that
>> I'll never get to see in person. I like having the originals protected
>
>> by facsimiles for reference and I am always happy to be able to
>> provide thousands of maps a year to my patrons. BUT, many still need
>> paper, OR want paper, especially if they want to sit and ponder the
>> maps for long periods of time, or for a variety of other uses.
>>
>> I love to keep e-files of maps for reference, and also because I can
>> find them again easier than some of my paper ones. I also can add
>> references to the files (or to my own database) so I can retrieve them
>
>> again online. So I do love e-maps AND paper maps (or maps on other
> materials for that matter).
>>
>> Treat format as another way of viewing and using, and make appropriate
>
>> formats match user demands. Do not, push them to taking something that
>
>> doesn't match their needs whenever possible.
>>
>> And, yes, I am dying to get grant-funding for a large-sheet scanner
>> and printer/plotter so that I can produce facsimiles or paper versions
>
>> of e-maps.
>>
>> David J. Bertuca, Map Librarian
>> 225 Capen Hall
>> University at Buffalo
>> Buffalo, NY 14260-1672
>>
>> 716-645-2947 x229
>> [log in to unmask]
>>
>> --On Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:58 PM -0600 Maps-L Moderator for
>> Brian Bach <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: Re: Paper vs. Digital maps
>>> Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 10:39:18 -0800
>>> From: Brian Bach <[log in to unmask]>
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> References: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, it's no contest that we have to have it all. (My typical
>>> library
>>> attitude.)
>>>
>>> I regularly ask questions of users along this line. Faculty and
>>> professionals tend to want both - as complimentary backups,
> naturally.
>>> Geography and Resource Management students join this opinion by
>>> wanting something expansive to literally spread out for location prep
>
>>> and while in the field.
>>>
>>> One of our profs recently did field work in Bolivia and encountered
>>> some horrible battery problems with the digital gear, so they
>>> reverted to their analog materials, which sufficed quite nicely. 'The
>
>>> cases carrying the digital equipment made nice chairs,' he quipped.
>>>
>>> Only a very specialized or predictable-use collection would commit
>>> wholly to digital, I should think. Old-fashioned and new-fashioned
>>> can co-exist and indeed, mesh without the need to debate.
>>>
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> Brian P. Bach
>>> Documents/Maps
>>> Brooks Library
>>> Central Washington University
>>> 400 E. University Way
>>> Ellensburg, WA 98926-7548
>>> USA
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> http://www.amazon.com/Calcuttas-Edifice-Buildings-Great-City/dp/81291
>>> 04156
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Maps-L Moderator for Kathy Stroud <[log in to unmask]> 3/4/2009 9:57 AM
>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: Re: Paper vs. Digital maps
>>> Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 09:55:08 -0800 (PST)
>>> From: Kathy Stroud <[log in to unmask]>
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> An additional comment,
>>>
>>> Definitely consider your patron's desires. As an academic
>>> institution, I find that most of my researchers want digital.
>>> However, we also serve members of the public who want paper. I'm old
>>> fashioned and still like paper for my topo maps unless I'm using them
> as part of a GIS analysis.
>>> If you go heavily digital, consider investing in large format
>>> scanners/plotters and patron service models involving these pieces of
>
>>> equipment.
>>>
>>> Kathy Stroud, Map/GIS Librarian
>>> Biological/Agricultural Sciences and Map Services, Shields Library
>>> 100 NW Quad Ave.
>>> Davis, CA 95616-5292
>>> 530-752-5248
>>>
>>> ----- "Maps-L Moderator for Russell Guy" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ------- Original Message --------
>>>> Subject:
>>>>
>>>> RE: Paper vs. Digital maps
>>>>
>>>> Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 10:53:06 -0500
>>>> From: L-Soft list server at UGA (1.8d) <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> To: Angie Cope <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There is also much material that is not available in digital format.
>
>>>> It is one thing if most of your requests are for US regions for
>>>> which there is significant digital material, quite a different
>>>> situation for foreign regions. As Scott notes, storing and managing
>
>>>> digital material has its own problems; I'd add to his list outdated
>>>> formats and training users to use your digital map system. While
>>>> GoogleMaps/GoogleEarth is a tremendous tool, it is not yet the
> "best"
>>>> source for all mapping.
>>>>
>>>> Russell
>>>> (a map dealer)
>>>>
>>>> At 10:18 AM 3/4/2009, you wrote:
>>>> > -------- Original Message --------
>>>> > Subject: RE: Paper vs. Digital maps
>>>> > Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 09:08:04 -0600
>>>> > From: McEathron, Scott R <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> > CC: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> > References: A<[log in to unmask]>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Consider the transition from paper to digital in terms of other
>>>> formats
>>>> > (books, journals, manuscripts). Have you transitioned 100% of
>>>> > your books from a paper based to digital only? No, of course not.
>
>>>> > Why
>>>> would
>>>> > maps be any different? The biggest factors retarding the
>>>> > transition
>>>> to
>>>> > digital in all formats is probably the U.S. Congress' continuous
>>>> > enhancement copyright protections (even for dead folks) over the
>>>> > past
>>>> 40
>>>> > years. While at the same time degrading the constitutional and
>>>> common
>>>> > law of Fair Use. Thus, for most items in library collections,
>>>> > libraries' own the paper and cloth binding--but not the
>>>> > intellectual content. If all your maps are in the public domain
>>>> > and none of your users wish to view anything in hard copy, then
>>>> > you certainly can consider going all digital. Another factor that
>>>> > we are experiencing
>>>> are
>>>> > the complexities and expense of digital storage, management, etc.
>>>> > Best wishes,
>>>> > Scott R. McEathron
>>>> > University of Kansas Libraries
>>>> >
>>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>>> > From: Maps, Air Photo & Geospatial Systems Forum
>>>> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Maps-L Moderator for
>>>> Jean
>>>> > Cane
>>>> > Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 8:18 AM
>>>> > To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> > Subject: Paper vs. Digital maps
>>>> >
>>>> > ------- Original Message --------
>>>> > Subject: Maps
>>>> > Date: Wed, 04 Mar 2009 09:13:49 -0500
>>>> > From: Jean <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> > Organization: University of Notre Dame
>>>> > To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Map Colleagues,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> We are in the process of reevaluating our map collections and
>>>> future
>>>> >> directions we would like to pursue, primarily paper vs. digital
>>>> >> collections. Has anyone here transitioned their collections from
>>>> >> a paper base to digital only collection? If so, what factors were
>
>>>> >> considered of primary importance in that pursuit of that policy
>>>> >> direction? What has been the positive and negatives as a result?
>>>> >> Similarly, was such a transition under consideration at your
>>>> >> institution and why wasn't it pursued? You may also respond
>>>> directly
>>>> >> to me at our email address. Any feedback and input would be
>>>> >> greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time and assistance.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> You may contact me at [log in to unmask]
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Mike Lutes
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Jean Cane
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > Jean Ann Cane
>>>> > Supervisor of Government Documents 208H Hesburgh Library
>>>> > University of Notre Dame Notre Dame, IN 46556
>>>> > Phone: (574) 631-5685
>>>>
>>>>
> ************************************************************************
>>>> ******* Russell Guy [log in to unmask]
>>>> Omnimap.com http://www.omnimap.com/maps.htm
>>>> International Map Specialists Tel.: 800-742-2677 (USA only)
>>>> P.O. Box 2096 Tel.: 336-227-8300
>>>> (International)
>>>> 1004 South Mebane St. Fax: 336-227-3748
>>>> Burlington, NC 27216-2096 USA
>>>> Past President (1996), International Map Trade Association
>>>> Founding Member, Independent Travel Stores Association
>>>> ********************************************************************
>>>> **
>>>> **********
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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