--- Begin Forwarded Message --- Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 17:41:58 -0400 From: Kevin Howald <[log in to unmask]> Subject: Re: Re: FW: USA NATIONAL ATLAS ONLINE <fwd> Sender: Kevin Howald <[log in to unmask]> Hi Bill - The key point here is the concept of added-value. Freely available data, including map data, from the government is usable as-is in most instances. But those users that require data with greater accuracy or currency will not mind paying for a data product that is more accurate, easier-to-use, etc. Nothing is being paid for twice. The best part is the end-user has a choice of products. Kevin Howald [log in to unmask] ----- Original Message ----- From: Johnnie Sutherland <[log in to unmask]> To: <[log in to unmask]> Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 5:32 PM Subject: Re: FW: USA NATIONAL ATLAS ONLINE <fwd> > --- Begin Forwarded Message --- > Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 13:28:40 -0700 > From: "Jones, Bill (MLIB)" <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: RE: FW: USA NATIONAL ATLAS ONLINE <fwd> > Sender: "Jones, Bill (MLIB)" <[log in to unmask]> > > > While I appreciate your wanting us to understand that point of view, you are > missing the > most important part of the question really being asked? Should the > taxpayers have to pay twice > for federal or any other government information? I say NO public accessible > library should pay for information, in any format, that has already been > paid for in full. > > Bill Jones > [log in to unmask] > > -----Original Message----- > From: Johnnie Sutherland [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 1:15 PM > To: [log in to unmask] > Subject: Re: FW: USA NATIONAL ATLAS ONLINE <fwd> > > > --- Begin Forwarded Message --- > Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 14:17:19 -0500 > From: "Kent D. Lee" <[log in to unmask]> > Subject: re: FW: USA NATIONAL ATLAS ONLINE <fwd> > Sender: "Kent D. Lee" <[log in to unmask]> > To: Linda Zellmer <[log in to unmask]> > Cc: John Sutherland <[log in to unmask]> > > > > For posting to Maps-L > RE: Vendor repackaging of public-domain data > > Dear Linda, and all, > > As one of the vendors who lurks on this list, I have a few words I would > like to share on this subject: > > First, I want to thank the organizers of Maps-L for letting vendors "lurk" > and even participate at all. Not all library group listserves allow such > open subscription. (I have asked for years to be included on the Slav-Lib > (Slavic Librarian) equivalent of this forum, but to date vendors are not > welcome.) IMHO, vendor participation is important, especially in niche > areas like maps and Russian publications, because without it I think there > is less of an opportunity to mitigate the tension that sometimes > characterizes the library/publisher or library/distributor relationship. > Dialogue is important, even if us vendors have motives at least partially > based on the seeking of profit. > > Second, I have not explored in detail the National Atlas web site, nor its > commercial variant. So I do not know anything about the pricing or other > commercial conditions. But I don't think this is important, since Linda's > question itself is more generic. > > These days more and more publications of all kinds are being "born digital." > Vendors--US vendors in particular because of the nature of copyright law on > USG-produced publications--have a long history of taking public domain data, > adding value, otherwise repackaging it, and then selling it or somehow > making money from it. Two interesting examples are DeLorme's state atlas > series, and MapQuest's own Internet site. In the former case, I do not > think that DeLorme went out and re-surveyed entire states--it seems that > they took USGS maps, "repackaged them," added value in a number of ways, > vastly improved distribution and convenience, and have made quite a nice > profit. With MapQuest (and similar sites, in fact), they have obviously > used Tiger and other public data as a core component of their database. > They then repackaged in via an easy-to-use and pretty convenient interface, > and furthermore made it free to end users by utilizing a business model > based on generating ad reven! > ues from Internet banner ads. > > It seems to me that the same thing is going on with the National Atlas. As > increasingly more powerful public domain GIS datasets are born digital, > there will be increasing opportunities for vendors to ingest them, add > value, and spit out (whoops-careful with the direction of that metaphor!) > new and maybe even superior publications. Of course, being private > publishers, they will probably claim copyright for the value-added aspects, > and I can see how this would not sit well with many in the library > community--or even in the USGS or other public sector area. But why is this > bad? If a better product has been created, what is wrong? If the vendor > overprices it or is making "too much" profits, you can be sure that Company > B will emerge, download the same source data set, slap on a new, improved > interface or add other value, and lower the price. It's the American way, > no? > > In the old days when public domain data was mostly paper-based, the barriers > to entry for private would-be value-adders was higher. In the digital age, > the barriers are much lower. I think we will all be better off by the new > and innovative products that will emerge. In the meantime I hope that > public-domain data will not disappear or have restrictions slapped on them > just because the private sector takes advantage of their existence. Where > such data are being produced as a part of government doing its normal work, > I don't think there is much of a threat to such restrictions. Maybe in > other areas--for example, some government agencies may engage in in a kind > of vanity publishing activity and then feel offended when a commercial > operation swoops by and steals its thunder--I can imagine feelings being > hurt. > > Anyways, my thoughts. > > Kent D. Lee > President/CEO > East View Cartographic > > > > > > > > > > >> --- Begin Forwarded Message --- > >> Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 09:28:25 -0700 > >> From: Linda Zellmer <[log in to unmask]> > >> Subject: FW: USA NATIONAL ATLAS ONLINE > >> Sender: Linda Zellmer <[log in to unmask]> > > > >> Hello All, > > >> This came across my e-mail from Geonet two weeks ago, and I am > >> surprised that it did not make it to Maps-L. > > >> This company has apparently downloaded the data from the > National > >> Atlas web site, repackaged it and is now selling web access to the > >> National > >> Atlas and is selling a CD-ROM version as well. > > >> The web site version (at least what can be used for free) > seems to > >> work faster than the National Atlas on the Web. However, I am not > amused > >> by > >> the commercial aspect. The company does state that they are not > >> affiliated > >> with USGS and that it is not THE National Atlas. Somehow I feel a > little > >> uneasy about the prospect of data being repackaged and sold. > > >> Linda Zellmer > > >> ***************************** > >> Linda Zellmer > >> Maps Librarian > >> Arizona State University Libraries > >> P.O. Box 871006 > >> Tempe, AZ 85287-1006 > >> [log in to unmask] > >> Phone: (480)-965-5973 > >> Fax: (480)-965-0883 > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Carolyn J. Laffoon [mailto:[log in to unmask]] > >> Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 12:37 PM > >> To: [log in to unmask] > >> Subject: USA NATIONAL ATLAS ONLINE > > > >> Subject: > >> USA NATIONAL ATLAS ONLINE > >> Date: > >> Tue, 26 Sep 2000 11:10:19 +0000 > >> From: > >> "Information Dept." <[log in to unmask]> > >> Reply-To: > >> [log in to unmask] > >> Organization: > >> CD Vision (USA), INC. > > > > >> Announcing........US ATLAS 2000 ONLINE > > > >> VISIT OUR WEB SITES : > > >> http://www.usatlas2000.com > > >> USA National Atlas ONLINE > > >> This is the first release of the USA National Atlas data Online > >> containing: > > >> Map data layers compiled by the USGS as part of their National Atlas > of > >> USA(tm)Project. > >> Plus Elevation and Geology > > > > >> We will continue updating the layers and software as new data become > >> available > > >> Map Layers on THE US Atlas 2000 Online > > >> Geology > >> Elevation > >> Airports > >> Principal Aquifers > >> County Boundaries > >> Cities & Towns > >> Major Dams > >> Federal and Indian Lands > >> Hydrologic Unit Boundaries > >> Seismic Events > >> Streams and Waterbodies > >> Agricultural Minerals Operations > >> Construction Minerals Operations > >> Ferrous Metal Mines > >> Ferrous Metal Processing Plants > >> Miscellaneous Industrial Minerals Operations > >> Nonferrous Metal Mines > >> Nonferrous Metal Processing Plants > >> Refractory, Abrasive, and Other Industrial Minerals Operations > >> Parkways and Scenic Rivers > >> Railroads > >> Roads > >> States > >> Urban Areas > >> Volcanos > >> Abandoned Mine Land Inventory - Coal Mine Related Problems > >> --- End Forwarded Message --- > --- End Forwarded Message --- > --- End Forwarded Message --- > --- End Forwarded Message ---