-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Upside down maps] Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 08:48:32 -0500 (EST) From: Ken Grabach <[log in to unmask]> Hello, everyone. I've been thinking about this notion of upside down in terms of world maps and others as well. I'm not sure that that term is really meaningful. In terms of an upsidedown book, I presume the subject means that something in the book (text) is upside down with respect to other parts of the book (cover, illustrations?). What is 'upsidedown' on a world map with east to the left and west to the right? Mostly a population's notion of where these cardinal points should be on a printed map. There is nothing updsidedown with respect to anything else on the map. And nor there is anything upsidedown on the map with respect to the earth's surface and the features on it. Its orientation is different than expected by viewers in the northern hemisphere, but that is all that is upsidedown. When we stand at a point on the earth, there is nothing that says to us as we face north, 'This should be the top edge of my map'. The Christian pilgrims of the early Christian era thought of Jerusalem as the center of the world, and 'oriented' their maps, showing what they knew of the world with east toward Jerusalem at the top. The ancient Greeks looking south toward the mouth of the Nile River saw the delta as a triangle with its base at the bottom. They would have oriented a map before Ptolemy with south at the top. What is at the bottom or top of a map depends entirely on what direction you are looking. Maps are cultural artifacts. They may be based on scientific observation and factual data, but the creation of the map is purely cultural. That is, the definitions derive not from nature but from human creation. The top of the map is entirely what the map creator determines it should be. What is upsidedown in the mapper's mind? Whatever she decides is down, or whichever direction he determines should be east, determines the bottom and top of the map. The only convention that really applies, is that we have defined the cardinal directions, as 'on a circle of 360 degrees with a point East, North is 90 degrees of leftward rotation from East, South is 90 degrees of rightward rotation from East, and West is 180 degrees either direction from East'. In short, I'm not sure what a subject heading 'upsidown map' really would mean. I would be able to deduce what it is intended to mean, but I'm not sure it is an accurate term. Ken ___________________________ Ken Grabach <[log in to unmask]> Maps Librarian Phone: 513-529-1726 Miami University Libraries Oxford, Ohio 45056 USA On Sat, 10 Jan 2004, Johnnie D. Sutherland wrote: > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: RE: Upside down maps > Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 22:35:17 -0800 > From: Virginia R. Hetrick <[log in to unmask]> > Organization: You Are Not Alone > <[log in to unmask]> > > ------------------ > Hi, folks - > > From the perspective of one of your clients, it seems to me the term > "upside > down" is different from variants of the term "orientation" meaning south > is at > the top. For example, I think of those maps you buy in Australia as > "upside > down" from my perspective. > > But, if I get a map of a town in North America that's at the south end of a > box canyon and is oriented with south at the top, I don't think of that as > being upside down (I have one such collected on my travels in western South > Dakota during the middle 1970s -- map copyright date is 1975) because > the only > way to approach the town is from the north, thus the "top" of the map will > always give you the proper orientation, in my view. > > After thinking about this for a while, I finally concluded that "upside > down" > is in relation to my idea of what is "rightside up". My idea of > Australia is > that it should be sort of rough but relatively flat on the "bottom" with > a big > bite (or is that bight ;-) out of the top side, mainly because I've been > looking at it that way for about 55 years since I saw my first National > Geographic map with Australia on it at the age of 5. > > I had no such preconceived notions about the town plan since I'd never been > there before (or since). > > So, keeping Mr. Buffum in mind, the "upsidedownness" of a map is more a > searchable?) comment while orientation is more of a database field. > > Dunno whether this furthers the discussion or not, but it's my sideways view > of the issue. ;-) > > virginia > -- > \ / Virginia R. Hetrick, here in sunny California > 0 Voicemail: 310.471.1766 Email: [log in to unmask] > Oo "There is always hope." > My health site: http://www.yana.org/hetrick > Site of the month: http://www.washington.edu/cambots/camera1_l.gif >