-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: 264 dates for maps Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 16:13:03 -0400 From: Nancy Kandoian <[log in to unmask]> To: Maps, Air Photo, GIS Forum - Map Librarianship <[log in to unmask]> Paige (and all) -- Regarding your comment: The nice thing about RDA is that even if you have to go as far as finding information outside of the resource itself you're allowed to input it into an RDA-based record without square brackets, in RDA, don't you have to put info that you get from outside of the resource in square brackets? Or is there a subtle difference between info outside the resource that definitely relates to the resource, and info from outside the resource that is the basis for a supposition you make? And regarding Bojana's question about whether one must populate all the 264 date fields, I also have been wondering, say you have info about publisher and manufacturer, like the place and name for each, and you have the date or a good educated guess about the date of one or the other, should you populate the subfield c for each, or just for the one that you have the info for? For example, would it be okay to do this (sort of like 260 $a $b $c $e $f in AACR2): 264_1 Washington : $b General Land Office, $c 1876. 264_3 [New York] : $b Julius Bien. Or should you have a $c for each 264 in your record? Nancy Kandoian NYPL Map Div. On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 2:14 PM, Angie Cope, American Geographical Society Library, UW Milwaukee <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: 264 dates for maps Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 14:03:12 -0400 (EDT) From: Paige G Andrew <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> To: Air Photo Maps, GIS Forum - Map Librarianship <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> Bojana, Yes, the 264 field and how its to be used is different and more complex than the 260 field. I now look at the 260 field as a giant pot with all kinds of "stuff" in it (like a witch's brew?), publication data, manufacturing data, production stuff, and even distribution stuff, all mixed together. Most often for contemporary maps that stuff is either publication or distribution data. But, the new 264 field serves to separate all of the "stuff" in the big pot into separate fields (its repeatable!), and the type/category of data is determined by the 2nd Indicator value/number. The one truly "odd" one is 264 _4 for copyright date, for the first time this unique date is separatable from other kinds of "publication" dates and only copyright (or phonographic/reserved date) data goes into a 264 _4 field. So, this really is more of a "what goes where, and when" type of system. Even Chapter 2 of RDA (for identifying Manifestations) breaks each of these into separate Instructions depending on the type of data, ranging from 2.7 through 2.11. At the top of the heap is Production data, and Production is defined in 2.7.1 as "...a statement identifying the place or places of production, producer or producers, and date or dates of production of a resource in an unpublished form. Production statements include statements relating to the inscription, fabrication, construction, etc., of a resource in an unpublished form." KEY PHRASE here is 'unpublished form'. This is what you are going to run into most Bojana for historical items. So, first and foremost, if the resource (map/atlas) you are describing is unpublished (manuscript) then you use 264 _0 where "0" means "production data". IF what you are working on has been published (and RDA also says anything online is considered to be published) then you must use 264 with a second Indicator of 1 (publisher data), 2 (distribution data), or 3 (manufacture data). In each case you work down from one to the next "if, then" scenario. If you have publication data available then put it into its own 264 field, if not then look for distribution data. If you have no publication data OR distribution data, then use manufacture data. And the nice thing about all of this is in regards to dates. IF for instance you have a place of publication and publisher but no formal date of publication BUT you have a copyright date available, or more likely in your case a manufacture date, you can infer a date of publication by "borrowing" that other date and putting it in square brackets, as long as you justify it with supplying a 264 field for the other type of date (and it would be a good idea to also supply a 500 note of justification for other catalogers to better understand). To get down to your most explicit question of what to do if there's no date available on the resource, there are some things you can do to at least come up with an approximate date from a decade or (I don't like this) century. But let's start with the simplest thing -- no date available, don't put the fixed field in the record for date. I know that rarely passes muster with us map catalogers, so the next thing to do is consult either map-specific data such as knowing when names of places changed at the country/region level for small/smaller scale maps or digging for things like when a road, bridge, or railroad was built, or a specific building for a large/larger scale map. Also look for textual stuff either part of the map or outside of it, such as "cultural information to date as of [date]", or sometimes when population figures are given as part of a place index there will be an indication, at least for U.S. stuff, of which census the population numbers are taken from. If you can't find anything to assist you that is PART OF the thing you are cataloging then turn next to other known resources (Google and similar is definitely a help these days and makes doing that kind of research typically faster than in the past) online or in print. There are several people on this list who have a strong grasp of where to turn to for traditional print-based resources on things like engravers and cartographers for historical cartographic materials (Tooley's dictionary, etc.) and they've even published helpful articles and similar either on this topic or that includes it. The nice thing about RDA is that even if you have to go as far as finding information outside of the resource itself you're allowed to input it into an RDA-based record without square brackets. And, every once in awhile you even get down to questions like "is this rag paper that this map was drawn/printed on?" because knowing the history of when pulp-based paper overtook rag-based paper give's one a reference point for a proposed date of manufacture or publication. I'll let others jump in with other helpful/useful information, but to get to your final question: "For example, what do you think belongs in the following fields: 264_0 Production date 264_1 Publication date 264_2 Distribution date 264_3 Manufacture date 264_4 Copyright date" the layout of each field above tells you what goes where. If you have a publication date, it goes in 264, second indicator 1; if you have only a distribution date it goes in a 264, second indicator 2 and so on. And remember for the 264 _4 situation ONLY a date goes in that field. Which reminds me, IF you have done your best to find either a place of [publication, distribution, etc.] either from the resource itself or outside of it, and the same with name of [publisher, distributor, etc.] then RDA instructs you to SUPPLY a standard phrase, in square brackets, which is either: [Place of XX not identified] see RDA 2.8.2.6 or [Publisher [or similar] not identified] see RDA 2.8.4.7 for "[Publisher not identified]", other instruction areas for other types of names. Example: 264 _1 [Place of publication not identified] : $b [Publisher not identified], $c [18--?] Hope I didn't muddy the waters too much. Paige ----- Original Message ----- From: "Angie Cope, American Geographical Society Library, UW Milwaukee" <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> Sent: Friday, March 15, 2013 12:48:47 PM Subject: 264 dates for maps -------- Original Message -------- Subject: 264 dates for maps Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2013 14:58:50 +0000 From: Skarich, Bojana <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>' <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> Hi All, In going over the new RDA field 264, I’m having a little trouble understanding just how to apply this to maps cataloging. I thought I’d ask the maps cataloging community what you think. Since we’re often missing a date of publication for maps, does anyone have any tips on how to interpret dates on maps in order to populate the 264 field dates? Is it even critical for user access to populate all these fields? I catalog a lot of rare maps that don’t have a copyright date or a publication date, in some cases. For example, what do you think belongs in the following fields: 264_0 Production date 264_1 Publication date 264_2 Distribution date 264_3 Manufacture date 264_4 Copyright date Thanks for any suggestions you may have on this J Bojana Bojana Skarich Non-Print Catalog Librarian Michigan State University Libraries 366 W. Circle Drive East Lansing, MI 48824 517-353-9034 <tel:517-353-9034> [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> <mailto:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>