-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: The decline and fall of the descriptive gazetteer
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2014 10:54:54 +0000
From: humphrey <[log in to unmask]>
To: Joel Kovarsky <[log in to unmask]>
CC: [log in to unmask]


No, know nothing about that work.

I am writing the chapter not because I am an expert on the history of gazetteers, but because I am one of the editors of the book, we concluded a historical chapter was essential, and as far as we could discover — including emails on lists — there are no experts on the history of gazetteers. I have done extensive historical research in the past, but on British economic and social history, and the reason I am involved in the book is my expertise on data models for digital gazetteers.

… so, please say more about the history of American geographic education!

Best wishes,

Humphrey Southall

On 15 Jan 2014, at 21:47, Joel Kovarsky <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

Humphrey,

I am guessing you are quite familiar with the works on the history of American geographic education by Susan Schulten and Martin Brückner. Hence I am just sending this along privately.

Joel

On 1/15/14, 2:44 PM, Angie Cope, American Geographical Society Library, UW Milwaukee wrote:
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: The decline and fall of the descriptive gazetteer
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 19:23:02 +0000
From: humphrey <[log in to unmask]>
To: Angie Cope, American Geographical Society Library, UW Milwaukee <[log in to unmask]>


I don’t know much about Chinese gazetteers — but that is precisely why Peter Bol at Harvard is my co-author on this chapter.

I am very aware that there are other parts of the world besides N America, W Europe and China, and would be very interested in comments on them …

Humphrey

On 15 Jan 2014, at 18:54, Angie Cope, American Geographical Society Library, UW Milwaukee <[log in to unmask]> wrote:


------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: The decline and fall of the descriptive gazetteer
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 12:37:46 -0500
From: Joel Kovarsky <[log in to unmask]>
To: Maps, Air Photo, GIS Forum - Map Librarianship <[log in to unmask]>


I am assuming your focus is on Western European gazetteers, and perhaps more focused on those British. Their history in China may be older: <http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2719404?uid=3739936&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21103277674257> and <http://www.emeraldinsight.com/journals.htm?articleid=17066178&show=abstract> . Given my lack of linguistic skill, I have no idea how these structurally compare to later western counterparts, although looking at that paper it appears they tended to be quite regional.

Given your ongoing and extensive involvement with this subject, it would not surprise me if you already knew this.


Joel Kovarsky

On 1/15/2014 12:15 PM, Angie Cope, American Geographical Society Library, UW Milwaukee wrote:
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forwarded by Angie

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: The decline and fall of the descriptive gazetteer
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 16:27:32 +0000
From: humphrey <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To: A forum for issues related to map & spatial data librarianship <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]


As some members of this list will know, I am co-editing a book about gazetteers, especially future digital gazetteers; but also authoring an introductory chapter which looks at the history of gazetteers, a surprisingly little explored topic.

Our general point is that, although most people’s idea of a gazetteer is simply a list of geographical names each with some kind of coordinate and sometime with a simple “feature type”, like “settlement” or “mountain”, there is an earlier history of gazetteers which provide lengthy descriptions of each place/feature.

We have computerised several of these for our web site, A Vision of Britain through Time, and are currently working on tidying up the seven-volume "Gazetteer of the World, or Dictionary of Geographical Knowledge, published by Fullarton's of Edinburgh in 1856; this has already been digitised within Google Books, but we are turning it into clean database content. We estimate it contains around 80,000 entries and 7m words, so the average entry is a couple of sentences, and many go on for several pages. Similarly, this “entry” for Edinburgh in Groome’s Ordnance Gazetteer of Scotland (1882-4) contains over 100,000 words:


SUCH BOOKS ARE NOT SO MUCH PLACE DICTIONARIES AS PLACE ENCYCLOPAEDIAS. I HAVE BEEN EXPLORING THEIR EARLY HISTORY, BUT THIS POSTING IS TO ASK ABOUT THEIR LATER HISTORY, AFTER 1900.

My basic narrative at the moment is that descriptive gazetteers, as distinct from itineraries, first appear in the mid to late seventeenth century, and the lengthiest examples come from the second half of the nineteenth century — but they then pretty much stop — when I have looked at the shelves of gazetteers in various libraries I have mainly seen books from the 19th century, occasionally earlier.

The exceptions seem to be:

— There are of course lots of atlases which also include a gazetteer at the back (but this is about books which are primarily text)

— Bartholomew have kept publishing revised editions of their Gazetteer of the British Isles (but that has relatively short entries, so more a place dictionary than an encyclopaedia).

— Various guides aimed mainly at tourists are organised as sets of alphabetically arranged entries about places, with descriptions; for example, various Shell Guides. However, map libraries are less likely to hold these.

IS THIS A FAIR NARRATIVE? WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BIG DESCRIPTIVE GAZETTEERS AFTER 1900?

One suggestion is that they were supplanted by broader encyclopaedias, a substantial fraction of whose headwords are typically toponyms. I have sometimes suggested that the world’s biggest and most widely used digital gazetteer is now Wikipedia; I once sampled 100 randomly selected Wikipedia articles, and about 30% had an associated global coordinate.

I WOULD BE VERY GRATEFUL FOR ANY THOUGHTS ANYONE HAS. I continue to find it bizarre that so much has been written about the history of maps and so little about the history of gazetteers and itineraries.

With thanks,

Humphrey Southall

Reader in Geography/
Director, GB Historical GIS
University of Portsmouth
Geography Dept, Buckingham Bldg,
Lion Terrace, Portsmouth PO1 3HE, UK



--
Joel Kovarsky
The Prime Meridian
1839 Clay Dr., Crozet, VA 22932 USA
Phone: 434-823-5696
Email: [log in to unmask]
Website: http://www.theprimemeridian.com



Humphrey Southall
Reader in Geography/
Director, GB Historical GIS
University of Portsmouth
Geography Dept, Buckingham Bldg,
Lion Terrace, Portsmouth PO1 3HE, UK





--
Joel Kovarsky
The Prime Meridian
1839 Clay Drive
Crozet, VA 22932 USA
http://www.theprimemeridian.com

Humphrey Southall
Reader in Geography/
Director, GB Historical GIS
University of Portsmouth
Geography Dept, Buckingham Bldg,
Lion Terrace, Portsmouth PO1 3HE, UK
www.gbhgis.org & www.visionofbritain.org.uk