----------------------------Original message---------------------------- For the sake of preventing confusion it might be wise to make a fundamental difference between bibliographic records and metadata records. Though bibliographic records also are metadata this means using the term metadata only in a general sense. In The Netherlands we define a bibliographic records as "a bibliographic description filed in a computer, whether or not completed with features as regards to contents". At the same time it usually means the records must conform to ISBD, AACR2 or equivalent rules. For spatial metadata I propose to use the current working definition of the ICA Commission on the Transfer of Spatial Data: "Metadata are data that describe the content, data definition and structural representation, extent (both geographic and temporal), spatial reference, quality, availability, status, and administration of a geographic dataset". This definition was adopted by the 1996 Summer-meeting of aforementioned commission to which I was observer for the IFLA Geography & Maplibrary Section. For 'quality' the commission makes itself dependent on the results of the studies of the ICA Data Quality Commission. (Also CEN/TC 287 and ISO/TC 211 have special workgroups on defining quality). Having studied somewhat the American, Australian/New Zealand, European, ISO standards, etc. I see good possibilities to extract sufficient data from metadata descriptions to create bibliographic records. Or, we can describe a given set bibliographic and as metadata, giving access to different kinds of users, and, if possible, hyperlinking records of bibliographic and metadata databases. However, there is a very fundamental difference pertaining to the creator of the record. Having the above definitions in mind bibliographic records are created primarily by centres of documentation (libraries, etc.), while metadata records are meant to be created by the producer of the digital spatial dataset. This is because the standards for metadata are primarily developed to facilitate the transfer to and applicability in other systems than the one of the originator and the interoperability of different datasets. Of course we also have in mind the creation of clearinghouses for spatial metadata and the derivative use for bibliographic databases and the migration of digital spatial datasets (the latter idea being studied by the American Commission on Preservation and Access). In our own practise in the Koninklijke Bibliotheek we describe off-line spatial datasets (floppy's, CD-ROM's, etc.) as a bibliographic record, just as any other cartographic material. The difference is that we put in the physical description area the extent of the dataset (e.g. 1 CD-ROM, 7 programme files (112.5 Mb) and 238 datafiles (486 Mb)), try to circumscribe the possibilities of the dataset in a contents-note and add system demands). For further examples see >http://www.konbib.nl/kb/skd/liber/articles/1meta-01.htm< As for metadata descriptions we do not create any because the National Clearinghouse is still in the planning stage (there are some pilot projects) and there not yet a metadata standard, as we await the European standard which is due in 1997. Besides we like the producers to create these records as they have more technical inside knowlegde than we do. Should I have a spatial dataset which should be described by a metadata standard I would salt this up for the moment and be satisfied with a bibliographic description. It is my belief that clearinghouses will not come on line so quickly because the creation of a metadata database structure with sophisticated search tools is a tricky thing, seen the difficulties we have had and still have with our bibliographic databases for traditional cartographic materials. But I think it not wise to have one database which contains bibliographic records as well as metadata records, because that diminishes the efficient use of such a database (not enough or too much retrieval and/or analyzing functions). Just a few thoughts on the subject! Jan Smits Map Curator Koninklijke Bibliotheek, National Library of The Netherlands tel: +31 70 3140241 fax: +31 70 3140450 e-mail: [log in to unmask]