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Subject: Re: MAPS-L: NRCan announces end to paper topo maps Jan 2007
(complete version)
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2005
From: David Cobb <[log in to unmask]>
To: Maps, Air Photo & Geospatial Systems Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Colleagues -
I find it quite ironic that I have been spending a considerable amount of
time lately discussing security issues relating to paper maps and wonder
when our successors will be meeting to discuss the problems of security
regarding our growing digital collections. Of course, it is already
happening but it remains ironic that it seems that only old paper maps seem
to have value in some circles.
David Cobb
>Subject: Re: MAPS-L: NRCan announces end to paper topo maps Jan 2007
>(complete version)
>Date: Tues, 27 Sep 2005
>From: Russell Guy <[log in to unmask]>
>To: Maps, Air Photo & Geospatial Systems Forum <[log in to unmask]>
>
>
>I feel that most of these decisions of discontinuing paper maps are being
>made solely for financial reasons, not for reasons of putting out a
>superior product.
>
>A telling remark for me was one made by the USGS representatives at the
>"Maps in Transition" conference at the Library of Congress earlier this
>year. In one of the sessions the USGS rep noted that USGS was moving from
>paper maps to The National Map. In the process he noted that some
>information on the paper maps might be lost. He asked how the attendees
>felt about such information as cemeteries and some colored information
>(vegetation coverage in particular) being left off the National Map
>versions of the 1:24,000 topos. This information is already on the maps
>and films - why would they not include this on the National Map version? I
>can only assume solely for financial reasons.
>
>We have some customers return plotted USGS topos with the complaint that
>due to poor eyesight they cannot read the elevations or other small
>symbols/figures on the plotted maps. A direct comparison of a plotted topo
>to the litho-printed version of the same map clearly shows the drop-off in
>readability and clarity.
>
>Most of the maps these days are updated digitally so the only step USGS
>saves by dropping paper maps is the actual printing and warehousing, soon
>to be outsourced. These costs are replaced by the cost of keeping servers
>up and running and handling download customer service, etc.
>
>I agree with Brian that this digital revolution is bringing societal
>changes. One societal issue that bothers me is the apparent lack of value
>that is placed on geographic information by society; ranging from education
>in schools to accepting low-quality plots to "oh well, can't find it on the
>web so will do without." There are a few related issues that I deal with
>regularly in my map business. My stepchildren, as well as far too many of
>our younger customers, have difficulty in reading maps - they go to
>MapQuest and print out directions, but can't tell that those directions
>are, in fact, the shortest and/or easiest path to a particular
>destination. In general, Americans are woefully undereducated in respects
>to geography. It seems to me that we are currently producing a generation
>that is even worse off as they have not been exposed to high quality
>cartographic products. If it is not at Barnes & Nobles it doesn't exist;
>if they can't download it for free off the web then they do without as they
>often don't know that a far better alternative exists. How will the
>copyright issues that arose with Napster and other file-sharing software
>and the apparent disregard by the teen generation for copyrights on
>intellectual property affect map production in the future?
>
>Finally, I agree with Brian's comments below that technology marches on
>whether we want it to or not. Digital maps will eventually replace paper
>maps. However, not all technology is truly better than its predecessor
>(Betamax, 8-track, etc.) and perhaps paper maps have not yet lost their
>usefulness during this transition period.
>
>Russell Guy
>
>At 03:57 PM 9/26/2005, you wrote:
>>================================================
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>>
>>Subject: Re: MAPS-L: NRCan announces end to paper topo maps Jan 2007
>>(complete version)
>>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005
>>From: Brian Bach <[log in to unmask]>
>>To: [log in to unmask], [log in to unmask]
>>
>>Many thanks to Brad Green and all involved for spreading the news about
>>this important issue.
>>
>>I was wondering, what do map library persons think of this sort of
>>thing? Do they feel threatened by it? Is it good, bad or indifferent in
>>its implications? Or maybe none of the above - just . . . different?
>>
>>Speaking for myself, as far a sweeping-change issues of today (and
>>there are many), I am often compelled to politicize them. This is only
>>because of evidence that indicates an ever-increasing presence of a
>>corporate mentality in realms not necessarily dominated by such revised
>>methods before. That is, the corporate mentality of today. (I'll leave
>>it up to each individual to choose their own definitions of that
>>particular entity.)Because of my interpretation of this trend, I am
>>suspect about the true value of such easily dashed-off motives as 'cost
>>effectiveness' and 'up-to-date'.
>>
>>If Brad can make this statement (full message further below):
>>
>><<The CMO states that paper maps are not their "raison d'etre" they
>>want
>>to concern themselves with the digital map files only, they claim
>>because that is better but I am convinced their real motivation is
>>simply because they think digital data is cheaper than a warehouse of
>>paper maps.>>
>>
>>then I think this might be an issue of concern on multiple levels.
>>Inevitable, certainly, but are map library people comfortable with the
>>prospect of the societal (yes, I think so) change that will result?
>>
>>I have few equivocations about technological developments, which will
>>advance no matter what anyone thinks, but I wonder about the agenda,
>>overt or occult, that any associated power on the corporate level might
>>wish to enact in its own interest.
>>
>>How then, should we react, if at all?
>>
>>All best,
>>
>>Brian
>>
>>Brian P. Bach
>>Documents/Maps
>>Brooks Library
>>Central Washington University
>>400 E. University Way
>>Ellensburg, WA 98926-7548
>>USA
>>[log in to unmask]
>>
>>>>>[log in to unmask] 09/26/05 9:56 AM >>>
>>================================================
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>>================================================
>>
>>Subject: Fw: NRCan announces end to paper topo maps Jan 2007 (complete
>>version)
>>Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005
>>From: Matthew Parsons <[log in to unmask]>
>>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>
>>This was posted on CARTA-L last week. I don't remember seeing it
>>posted
>>on this list yet (and if it has, my apologies), but I thought some of
>>you might be interested in what's being proposed in Canada. It's
>>creating quite a lot of traffic on the Canadian map libraries
>>listserv.
>>
>>Matthew Parsons, Map Librarian
>>Map Collection and Cartographic Information Services Unit
>>University of Washington Libraries
>>206-543-9392
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Lori Sugden
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 3:04 PM
>>Subject: FW: NRCan announces end to paper topo maps Jan 2007 (complete
>>version)
>>
>>
>>Hello all, I noted that the original message was incomplete and
>>checked
>>it with Brad Green. The full version follows:
>>
>>* * * *
>>
>>Would you please send this note to the CARTA list and any other
>>interested parties. If you agree with me that this is a very bad
>>policy
>>decision (abandoning paper topographic maps) could you please assist
>>me
>>in making this fact known.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Brad Green
>>President, World of Maps Inc.
>>Sept 22, 2005
>>
>>
>>On September 7, 2005 Natural Resources Canada invited the Regional
>>Distribution Center (RDC) business representitives from across Canada
>>to
>>hear the bleak future prospect for paper topographic maps in Canada.
>>
>>The meeting was chaired by Mr. John Dawson, Acting Director Centre for
>>Topographic Information
>>Other government representatives attending are:
>>Ms. Jean Cooper, Director General, Mapping Services Branch
>>Barbara MacIntosh, Manager CMO
>>Marjo Lalonde, Supervisor
>>John Donner, CTI
>>Sylvain Lemay, CTI
>>Pat Fish, CTI
>>Donna Williams, Atlas of Canada
>>Steve Westley, Atlas of Canada
>>Craig Stewart, Geo Connections
>>
>>Current plans from the federal government is that the Canada Map
>>Office
>>(CMO) is to be permanently closed at the end of the current business
>>lease for the 130 Bentley Ave warehouse in Jan 2007
>>
>>The CMO has already discontinued press runs of all NTS maps
>>
>>The CMO now wants to discontinue printing - plotting paper maps of any
>>sort (currently a plotter is used to replenish out of print paper
>>maps).
>>
>>The CMO states that paper maps are not their "raison d'etre" they want
>>to concern themselves with the digital map files only, they claim
>>because that is better but I am convinced their real motivation is
>>simply because they think digital data is cheaper than a warehouse of
>>paper maps.
>>
>>The CMO proposal at the moment is that RDC's would access vector data
>>and produce paper maps for sale. The actual exact method this will
>>take
>>is unknown, a presentation by PCI Geomatics of a map server model they
>>developed was given.
>>
>>World of Maps Inc. is an RDC and there are ten other private and
>>government agencies acting as RDC's across Canada. This distribution
>>network for selling paper topographic maps has been established
>>successfully for about 10 years. There are also thousands of smaller
>>retail dealers across the country as well. The users of topographic
>>maps
>>(our customers) are from various groups including: Search & Rescue,
>>Forest Fire crews, Hunters, Fishermen, Outdoor recreation users,
>>Engineering firms, Environmental firms, developers, Oil & Gas Pipeline
>>companies, Mining firms, University field workers and many other
>>organizations and individuals.
>>
>>The issue of the old dates of topographic maps was raised at the
>>meeting
>>as it always is, this time used as a reason to discontinue paper maps.
>>(NRCan policy decisions to cut costs some years ago was to no longer
>>update any more paper topo maps) The majority of the Canadian
>>landmass
>> is unpopulated, and there is likely no difference to when the paper
>>maps was originally produced. That small percentage of topographic
>>maps
>>near populated areas are indeed quite old and that is important. Our
>>experience is that people use topographic maps for either remote areas
>>or for the actual accurate geographic information and the date of the
>>maps is not as important a factor.
>>
>>The government claims that they have up-to-date digital vector map
>>data
>>(their demonstation map at this meeting did not support that claim
>>however) and it appears to me that the government feels that there is
>>no
>>longer any need to continue to produce paper maps. The quality of the
>>demonstration topo map produced was inferior in quality to a regular
>>paper topo map with that typical computer generated "schematic" look.
>>While the demo map featured an old road network presumably once
>>operational the main advantage of this type of product is that it is
>>"more up-to-date" as I pointed out above that is not relevant to most
>>of
>>the Canadian landmass.
>>
>>The RDC's were told that if there is a business case it is up to each
>>individual RDC to purchase a large format printer and necessary
>>software
>>to print and distribute topographic maps in the future because the
>>government policy at this time is to abandon paper maps as much as
>>possible.
>>
>>In my opinion it is the responsibility of the federal government to
>>continue to produce paper maps of the Canadian landmass for Canadian
>>taxpayers. If indeed the digital vector map data can be used to
>>produce
>>a more up to date paper map it is the responsibilty of the government
>>to
>>do that. Our business has the printing facilities to produce maps as
>>suggested but I would prefer to be able to do that AND continue to
>>access the existing paper maps at the CMO because despite being old
>>they
>>are of better quality and paid for in full by Canadian taxpayers.
>>
>>I intend to make this issue known to all interested parties, please
>>contact me if you agree and can help in any way.
>>
>>Faithfully,
>>Brad Green
>>President
>>--
>> ========= World of Maps Inc. =========
>> The Source for Geographic and Travel information
>> 1235 Wellington St. Ottawa, ON, Canada, K1Y 3A3
>> Telephone (613) 724-6776 -OR- 1-800-214-8524
>> Fax. (613) 724-7776 or 1-800-897-9969
>> http://www.worldofmaps.com mailto:[log in to unmask]
>> Brad Green's private email mailto:[log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>>--
>>
>>--
>
>*******************************************************************************
>Russell Guy [log in to unmask]
>Vice President http://www.omnimap.com/maps.htm
>Omni Resources Tel.: 800-742-2677 (USA only)
>International Map Specialists Tel.: 336-227-8300 (International)
>P.O. Box 2096 Fax: 336-227-3748
>1004 South Mebane St.
>Burlington, NC 27216-2096 USA
> Past President (1996), International Map Trade Association
> Founding Member, Independent Travel Stores Association
>****************************************************************************
>
>****
***************************************************************************
David A. Cobb Tel. 617.495.2417
Harvard Map Collection FAX 617.496.0440
Harvard College Library Email: [log in to unmask]
Cambridge, MA 02138 HTTP://hcl.harvard.edu/maps
************************** VERITAS ****************************************
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