I dont consider milneedwardsi and clytospira to be separate species,,,,,one
is the subspecies of the other, or so I have learned perhaps
erroneously......that's what we were trying to discuss....
refer back to R. Mayhews original message.
Richard, could kawamurai then be considered endemic to the area? The only
reason I ask is because I have heard recently within the last year that
several specimens were taken from Philippine waters.
Sincerely, lyle
> [Original Message]
> From: Richard Petit <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: 6/2/2005 9:39:20 PM
> Subject: Re: Conus milneedwardsi
>
> I am surprised that most messages on this thread continue to discuss Conus
> clytospira and C. milneedwardsi as separate species. I will not enter
that
> debate but wish to reply to the query about Conus kawamurai (Habe, 1962).
> Conus kawamurai is considered to be a junior synonym of Conus aratispira
> Pilsbry, 1894. It is found only in the later Tertiary and Recent fauna of
> Japan. This synonymy is discussed in detail by Callomon, 2000, Venus 59:
> 59-60.
>
> dick
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lyle Therriault" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 9:09 PM
> Subject: Re: Conus milneedwardsi - why no nominative form?
>
>
> >I guess it would be true to some extent that both milneedwardsi and
> > clytospira can reach large proportions, tho in my own experiences i have
> > seen many more very large milneedwardsi than I have clytospira....again
I
> > would tend to agree that on a whole both species would reach large sizes
> > but i do think that milneedwardsi reaches those sizes more
> > frequently....maybe I should word it like that.
> >
> > I do have a Red Sea version of milneedwardsi....trusting the data on
the
> > slip...looks just like any milneedwardsi that would come from someplace
> > other than the Red Sea. Really no difference in size, coloration or
> > pattern
> > that is noticable. And I dont have enough specimens to really do a fair
> > study on them either to see if there was any differences from specimens
> > taken in the Red Sea area.
> >
> > One would have to presume, albeit sight unseen at least from here in the
> > US, that the holotype would be a juvenile specimen at 46 mm. I have seen
> > some specimens in the 60mm+ range like Carlos mentioned but the ones I
> > have
> > seen didnt seem to be fully "developed" for lack of a better word they
> > were more than likely "older teenage" specimens , not juveniles but not
> > fully adult either. Perhaps another subspecies? Does anyone know for
sure
> > if form kawamurai is strictly found in Japanese waters, or can it be
> > found
> > elsewhere.
> >
> > Does anyone else have any thoughts on this? I am curious to know if
anyone
> > else out there has the same frustrations.
> >
> > ~Lyle
> >
> >
> >> [Original Message]
> >> From: Carlos Duraes de Carvalho <[log in to unmask]>
> >> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >> Date: 6/2/2005 6:25:51 PM
> >> Subject: Re: Conus milneedwardsi - why no nominative form?
> >>
> >> Dear Manolo
> >> I have a number of Conus milneedwardsii from Mozambique, none with
46mm,
> >> but I have seen some with about 60mmm, so I think 46mm is possible. I
> >> agree with you that it is necessary to see the holotype.
> >> Best regards to all
> >> Carlos www.shellscarvalho.com
> >>
> >> -----Mensagem original-----
> >> De: Conchologists List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Em nome de
> >> Manuel J. Tenorio
> >> Enviada: quinta-feira, 2 de Junho de 2005 21:12
> >> Para: [log in to unmask]
> >> Assunto: Re: Conus milneedwardsi - why no nominative form?
> >>
> >>
> >> Dear friends:
> >> This is a very good point. Many other cases like this do in fact exist:
> >> an
> >> old description in which the name has been commonly used (or misused)
to
> >> design another completely different species. I haven't checked myself
> >> the
> >> holotype of milneedwardsi which shoud be in Paris, but I will try.
> >> However, the original description is available online. Please check at
> >> the
> >> wonderful Alan Kohn's site by following this link:
> >>
http://biology.burke.washington.edu/conus/catalogue/sources/Jousseaume,%
> >> 20F.%201894.%20Bull.%20Soc.%20Philom.%20Paris%20(8).%20vi.pdf
> >>
> >> The article is in french with the original description in latin. What I
> >> can say is that apparently Josseaume did described something that
sounds
> >> like a miniature milneedwardsi (according to our modern standards). It
> >> is
> >> clearly assigned to the textile group and the high spire is the most
> >> relevant character mentioned. The type locality is Aden (Yemen), and
all
> >> the species described in the article come from the Red Sea. This is
odd,
> >> because I do not recall that typical milneedwardsii had been found in
> >> the
> >> Red Sea, at least recently.
> >> AS I said before, I must have a look at the holotype, but it could
> >> actually happen that the original milneedwardsi resulted to be
something
> >> different to the "modern" large milneedwardsi, typically from
> >> Mozambique.
> >> If so, clytospira would probably take its place as nominal species, and
> >> then the subspecies from Mozambique would eventually require a new
name!
> >> What about "conus clytospira conch-lerorum"? ha ha
> >>
> >> Warmest regards to all
> >>
> >> Manuel Jimenez Tenorio
> >> Jerez, SPAIN
> >>
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