Dear Rich Pierce,
Thanks for dissecting the various issues involved in this thread but your use of the term "environmental activists" is problematic.
First, the regulations and laws pertaining to mollusks were probably not the DIRECT result of environmental activists' actions.
Second, your characterization of what "environmental activists" want is painted with such a broad brush that it sounds...irrational.
Third, I believe most of this list support the actions of any individual or group that result in the protection of the environment and mollusks. One small example: Palm Beach Reef Rescue could rightly be deemed an environmental activist group. Thanks to their efforts, the dumping of sewage onto the reef in the vicinity of Delray and Boynton Beach was halted. I'm confident that this would have been inconceivable without their activism; government and corporate contractors were intransigent until ordinary citizens upped the pressure.
David Kirsh
Durham, NC
-----Original Message-----
>From: Rich <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Sep 19, 2010 1:37 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [CONCH-L] Endangered Species Act-SELLING OF CITES SP ON EBAY
>
>It appears to me that there are several issues intertwined here.
>
>1. E-bay policies. What may or may not be sold on e-bay is partially
>independent of wildlife laws. E-bay policies prevent selling many items
>which are legal to buy and sell, such as pet animals.
>
>2. CITES. Doesn't this only apply to international trade? Since the shells
>in question originated in Hawaii and were sold in Florida, the only
>violations occur when the seller sells to buyers outside of the USA. Sales
>to other collectors within the USA has nothing to do with CITES.
>
>3. Endangered Species Act. Generally, possession of endangered species
>collected before enactment of the law is legal. Supposedly, large numbers
>of Achatinella were taken before collection was banned. The seller stated
>that these shells came from an old collection. Hopefully he has
>documentation.
>
>4. Some of the Achatinella species that were sold on e-bay are listed as
>extinct by the IUCN. According to the Bishop Museum's web site, many of the
>extinct Achatinella species went extinct before the ESA was enacted in 1973.
>These should be legal to sell and possess regardless of other documentation.
>
>
>It appears to me that the accusations of illegality of the seller may be
>overstated. It would appear to me that only the sale of non-extinct species
>to overseas buyers might be in violation of CITES, and then only if they do
>not have an exemption for specimens collected before the treaty was enacted.
>
>
>Regarding Environmental activists: They are irrational. Nothing less than
>a total ban on all collection and possession of anything found in the
>natural environment will satisfy them. Don't try to appease them, just
>oppose them!
>
>Rich Pierce
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Conchologists List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
>Chris Takahashi
>Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 2:34 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [CONCH-L] Endangered Species Act-SELLING OF CITES SP ON EBAY
>
>Martin,
>Of course it's legal to own Achatinella. What's illegal is engaging in
>open online sell/trade. Achatinella is on CITES list of endangered species
>for a reason. To openly offer a federally protected species online on
>Ebay, with prior sales showing in the seller's feedback column, isn't very
>smart.
>
>Ebay can suspend your account for trafficking of illegal items and Fish
>and Wildlife can fine and/or incarcerate if items were sent abroad. In
>this case the seller's feedbacks shows prior sales of said items and
>checking the buyers location shows what state or countries the items were
>shipped too. We shell collectors get hit by ecologists as "reef rapers"
>because of one dimensional thinking. So when a sheller breaks the law it
>really makes all us shellers look bad.
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>[log in to unmask] - a forum for informal discussions on molluscs
>To leave this list, click on the following web link:
>http://listserv.uga.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=conch-l&A=1
>Type your email address and name in the appropriate box and
>click leave the list.
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>[log in to unmask] - a forum for informal discussions on molluscs
>To leave this list, click on the following web link:
>http://listserv.uga.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=conch-l&A=1
>Type your email address and name in the appropriate box and
>click leave the list.
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction.
Fiction has to make sense." - Mark Twain
----------------------------------------------------------------------
[log in to unmask] - a forum for informal discussions on molluscs
To leave this list, click on the following web link:
http://listserv.uga.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=conch-l&A=1
Type your email address and name in the appropriate box and
click leave the list.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
|
