Hi Marlo,
 
I went a little overboard last time, but I still want to disagree with
you, but with a friendlier tone.
 
Marlo Krisberg wrote:  Lynn alluded to primitive man, to man being a
part of the "web" (of nature), and "our roots."  My reply was that while
that may have been true once, it changed when we developed tools,
agriculture and other technologies to control and permanently
(relatively) modify the environment.  Homo sapiens stopped being a part
of the natural processes as soon as they acquired the awareness and
ability to intervene and control them.
 
Oh, I couldn't disagree more.  Assuming Homo sapiens is a product of
natural selection, it certainly had its origins within the natural
process.  Just because we can split the atom and have higher
intelligence that any know creature on Earth to precede us, doesn't mean
we aren't still a part of the cycle of nature on this planet.  Who is to
say there won't be a creature a thousand times more intelligent than
humans living on Earth in 40 million years.  Our altercation of the
environment is part of the evolution of this planet.  Now if man had
colonized this world from another planet, then I would agree with you.
 
 
>> If there are billions of humans rapidly consuming the
>> world's resources and you can't blame that on nature, who do you
>> blame
>> it on?    Blame is not the issue.  It's a matter of responsibility.
>
 
Well, I shouldn't have said blame.  But you consider man's interaction
with his environment separate from the natural process, and I don't.
Yes, we are responsible for our actions and do have a choice.  But
whatever choice we make, good or bad, it is, in my mind, a part of the
natural "evolution" of this planet.
 
 
>> . Since when did nature gain volition?  We largely control nature
>> now.
>
 
Ebola, Hanta, HIV, 1918 influenza...we are a long way from being able to
control nature.  Honestly, we can't even conceive of what nature could
come up with to wipe us out, but I'll bet you it could find a way, at
least to put us in check.  El Nino is a good example of the curse of our
"progress", that is, if we are even responsible for this dramatic little
demon.
 
(Of course, there are outside influences, too.  I don't think you could
call the projectile that allegedly wiped out the dinosaurs within the
natural processes of life on Earth.)
 
 
>>  It allowed us to thrive  To the contrary.  We thrive because we
>> have developed the technology to overcome nature.  With our
>> agriculture, modification of the environment, medical science and
>> ever expanding technology we have overcome nature's homeostatic
>> processes.
>
We are no more than a long term plague of locusts.  Well, I guess that
is a little too cynical, but the analogy could be made.  Geologically,
we have been here a very short time, and life in some fashion will go on
after we are gone.
 
How the heck did I get so far away from shelling and conservation???
Oh, well, I have beat this dead horse again.  But this time it has been
fun.
 
I didn't even touch on the concept of creation.  If we were put here by
God, then the wanton disregard for what God has bestowed upon us is sin,
and we'd better wise up fast, or the Earth isn't going to be the only
thing to go up in smoke.  But that is another argument all together!
 
I promise to shut up now.
 
Travis
 
 
Hi Patti.  Just what would you have me to be, next time? (Baaaa!)