Dear Marcus,

Your identifications are spot on.

The kaleidoscope of patterns and the spectral color palette exhibited
by your Brazilian specimens (lot 18894 at the URL you provided below)
closely approximate those in Jax offshore populations:
<http://www.jaxshells.org/3bb1.htm>.

Harry


At 08:03 AM 4/6/2009, you wrote:
>It seems the specimen from Rich's website is quite different from
>what we have on our photo gallery,
>our shells are flatter, more trigonal and not as shinny. His shell
>seems to be a Pitar or
>Transenella but I might be wrong.
>
>http://www.femorale.com.br/shellphotos/detail.asp?species=Gouldia+cerina+%28C%2EB%2EAdams%2C+1845%29
>
>Our shells were collected either at low tide using hand dredge or at
>20-30 meters by dredge - from
>Sao Paulo State to Espirito Santo State.
>
>Marcus
>________________________________________
>De: Conchologists List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Em nome de
>Harry G. Lee
>Enviada em: quinta-feira, 2 de abril de 2009 11:26
>Para: [log in to unmask]
>Assunto: [CONCH-L] Gouldia cerina
>
>Yo, Tom,
>
>I now see there are 25 lots of Gouldia cerina and eight of G. cerina
>in my cabinet. A review of the
>labels indicates no change in my reported limits of range, but
>bathymetrics vary from 0-39 m
>(latter Bahamas) for Gouldia bermudensis and 0-66 m (latter Gulf of
>Mexico) for G. cerina.
>
>G. cerina has a rounded subtrigonal shape (Marlo's images show this
>nicely), and G. bermudensis is
>subcircular/oval and is less compressed. The beaks of G. b. are more
>blunt, tumid, prosocline and
>anteriorly-placed than those of G. c. The radial sculpture is less
>effaced on the middle third of
>the valves of G. b. G. b. appears to grow not much larger than 6 mm
>while G. c. often exceeds 10 mm.
>Colors are more subdued in G. b. The pallial sinus of G. b. is very
>subtle; its inner margin is
>nearly parallel to the pallial line, that of G. c. although small,
>has a quite distinctly arcuate
>inner margin. Finally, the inner valve margins of mature G. b. have
>distinct fine commarginal sulci
>(usually two) whereas, the inner margins of mature G. c. have less
>distinct commarginal sculpture
>and are weakly  crenulate.
>
>The only illustration of G. bermudensis I can find is Dall and
>Stimpson (1901: pl. 55, fig. 2) their
>type figure of G. insularis. In mixed Bermuda lots, shape alone
>allowed prompt and consistent
>separation.
>
>Harry
>
>Dall, W. H. and C. T. Simpson. 1901. The Mollusca of Porto Rico. U.
>S. Fisheries Commission Bulletin
>20: 351-524 + pls. 53-58.
>
>
>At 07:48 AM 4/2/2009, Tom Watters wrote:
> >So how does one separate G. cerina and G. insularis?
>
> >At 07:46 AM 4/2/2009, I wrote:
> >>Dear Allen and other interested parties,
> >>
> >>I mentioned an ex pisce series of Gouldia=20
> >>cerina from 155 ft. off Ponte Vedra, St. Johns Co. on the discussion site.
> >>
> >>I have looked at a lot of Gouldia, including G.=20
> >>bermudensis (E. A. Smith, 1885) [+ G. insularis=20
> >>(Dall and Simpson, 1901], G. minima (Montagu,=20
> >>1803), and G. californica Dall, 1917 - the=20
> >>latter two occurring in the eastern Atlantic and E. Pacific respectively.
> >>
> >>In my collection are 18 lots of G. cerina=20
> >>ranging from Bermuda to Brazil (Estado do S=E3o=20
> >>Paulo) and six of G. insularis (Bermuda,=20
> >>Bahamas, and Caribbean Colombia] - none from=20
> >>the Carolinian Province. The two were found=20
> >>together at only one place, Coney Is., Bermuda.
> >>
> >>I have been unable to distinguish any western=20
> >>Atlantic species aside from these two. Their=20
> >>bathymetric range seem to be similar. G. cerina=20
> >>tends to appear closer to shore in the=20
> >>"tropics" and is "submerged" in cooler waters.
> >>
> >>However, there is always more to any "just so" story as this.
> >>
> >>Harry

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