When did Charonia lampas get on the CITES list? John Tennessee
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Nieweg <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 6:32 AM
Subject: Re: Stombus Gigas
>Yep, Charonia variegata, Charonia tritonis, Charonia lampas, Pinna nobilis,
>Cypraea esontropia etc etc. Check out cites on the internet. And ofcourse
no
>coral!!!!!! Dennis.
>
>
>
>At 20:59 7-12-99 +1300, you wrote:
>>I was interested to read some of your messages regarding the CITES laws
>about taking this shell. I had a rather unpleasant experience earlier in
the
>year when I made my first shell purchase over the internet. Having not yet
>found this wonderful newsgroup full of information and advice, I was quite
>naive. I ordered some shells from Shell Horizons, Florida. They seemed very
>reasonably priced and their website showed beautiful examples. Being a
>beginner I still need a lot of the common shells. I ordered, among others,
2
>Stombus Gigas. At the time I had no idea it was an endangered species, and
>there was no mention of this on the website. In fact, they proudly display
>in bold letters: " we do not trade in endangered species". I emailed them
>several times before placing my order to check things out, and I asked
>whether a permit was required to export the shells to NZ. I was told no.
>>When the shipment arrived it was duly inspected by NZ Customs and our
>Conservation Dept. They identified the Queen Conch shells and siezed them.
I
>received the remainder of the shells with a very strong letter from Customs
>berating me for ordering these shells and informing me they would be
destoyed.
>>I was very upset and concerned, so I phoned the Conservation Dept and
>Customs and spoke to several people about it. I explained that I had no
idea
>it was on the endangered list, and showed them records of emails received
>from Shell Horizons, etc. They said the shipment should have come with a
>CITES permit, but eventually agreed that if I could get a belated CITES
>permit from the seller, they would consider it. Back I went to Shell
>Horizons to tell them exactly what I thought of the whole thing, and I
>wasn't happy with the quality of the shells I received either. Nearly all
of
>them were badly chipped, cracked or dead and dull.
>>The guy I dealt with was really rude, saying the shells were "good"
quality
>according to him and anyway what do you expect for that price..., and that
>NZ Customs were just a bunch of trouble-making fanatics. He was not at all
>interested in getting me a permit, he insisted that a permit was only
>required for commercial shipments of a dozen or more. He informed me they
>sell thousands of them all over the world without trouble. This is not
legal
>according to the authorities here. Anyhow, I finally got a refund for the 2
>Strombus Gigas from Shell Horizons, with much grumbling from them.
>>Anyway, that experience taught me some valuable lessons. It will be a
while
>before I even consider another purchase from overseas. In any case the
>freight charge was nearly as much as the shells, which makes the exercise
>pointless.
>>This whole issue of Strombus Gigas being classified as endangered, yet
>seems to be sold in huge quantities is a real worry. I sent an email to the
>CITES office for the Florida area about it, but I never even received an
>acknowledgement or reply. It would be quite nice to have a Strombus Gigas
>for my collection, but I certainly do not want to contribute to the trade
of
>an endangered species. How would I be able to tell for sure when or where a
>shell was taken - unscrupulous dealers are not going to admit to breaking
>the law. I think I will just steer clear from this one - there are many
>other beautiful shells out there that are plentiful.
>>By the way - any other endangered shells I should be aware of??
>>
>>
>>
>>
>><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
>><HTML><HEAD>
>><META content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1" http-equiv=Content-Type>
>><META content="MSHTML 5.00.2919.3800" name=GENERATOR>
>><STYLE></STYLE>
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>><BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
>><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I was interested to read some of your
messages
>>regarding the CITES laws about taking this shell. I had a rather
unpleasant
>>experience earlier in the year when I made my first shell purchase over
the
>>internet. Having not yet found this wonderful newsgroup full of
information
>and
>>advice, I was quite naive. I ordered some shells from Shell
>>Horizons, Florida. They seemed very reasonably priced and their
website
>>showed beautiful examples. Being a beginner I still need a lot of the
common
>>shells. I ordered, among others, 2 Stombus Gigas. At the time I had
no
>idea
>>it was an endangered species, and there was no mention of this on the
website.
>>In fact, they proudly display in bold letters: " we do not trade in
endangered
>>species". I emailed them several times before placing my order to
>>check things out, and I asked whether a permit was required to export
the
>>shells to NZ. I was told no.</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>When the shipment arrived it was duly
>>inspected by NZ Customs and our Conservation Dept. They identified the
Queen
>>Conch shells and siezed them. I received the remainder of the shells with
a
>very
>>strong letter from Customs berating me for ordering these shells and
informing
>>me they would be destoyed.</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I was very upset and concerned, so I phoned
the
>>Conservation Dept and Customs and spoke to several people about it. I
>explained
>>that I had no idea it was on the endangered list, and showed them records
of
>>emails received from Shell Horizons, etc. They said the shipment should
have
>>come with a CITES permit, but eventually agreed that if I could get a
belated
>>CITES permit from the seller, they would consider it. Back I went to Shell
>>Horizons to tell them exactly what I thought of the whole thing, and I
wasn't
>>happy with the quality of the shells I received either. Nearly all of them
>were
>>badly chipped, cracked or dead and dull.</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The guy I dealt with was really rude, saying
the
>>shells were "good" quality according to him and anyway what do you expect
for
>>that price..., and that NZ Customs were just a bunch of trouble-making
>fanatics.
>>He was not at all interested in getting me a permit, he insisted that a
permit
>>was only required for commercial shipments of a dozen or more. He informed
me
>>they sell thousands of them all over the world without trouble. This is
>>not legal according to the authorities here. Anyhow, I finally got a
>refund
>>for the 2 Strombus Gigas from Shell Horizons, with much grumbling from
>>them.</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Anyway, that experience taught me some
valuable
>>lessons. It will be a while before I even consider another purchase from
>>overseas. In any case the freight charge was nearly as much as the shells,
>which
>>makes the exercise pointless.</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This whole issue of Strombus Gigas being
>classified
>>as endangered, yet seems to be sold in huge quantities is a real worry. I
sent
>>an email to the CITES office for the Florida area about it, but I never
even
>>received an acknowledgement or reply. It would be quite nice to have a
>Strombus
>>Gigas for my collection, but I certainly do not want to contribute to the
>trade
>>of an endangered species. How would I be able to tell for sure when or
where a
>>shell was taken - unscrupulous dealers are not going to admit to breaking
the
>>law. I think I will just steer clear from this one - there are many other
>>beautiful shells out there that are plentiful.</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>By the way - any other endangered shells I
should
>>be aware of??</FONT></DIV>
>><DIV> </DIV>
>><DIV> </DIV>
>><DIV> </DIV>
>><DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
>>
>Dennis C.Nieweg
>
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