Hello David ,.Well , you did not mean to be offensive :-) . Harpa
articularis do co-exist almost everywhere in the range of H. major . The
range of Harpa davidis partly overlaps with those of H.articularis and H.
major , however it seems there are no hybrids . As I have specialized in
Harpidae ( as well as , recently , in Haliotidae ) my knowledge of possible
hybrids in other families is somewhat limited however real hybridization in
the wild is extremely rare indeed and according to me should be considered
as truly exceptional ( I guess that you read my most recent post to the list
concerning the conditions to meet for hybridization ? ) and not as a rather
common thing such as the case of the intermediary specimens between Lambis
lambis and Lambis millepeda ( which were mentioned in a recent post ) .
These intermediary specimens are puzzling but my guess is that they should
not be be assigned to hybridization since the populations of millepeda and
lambis really swarm together in the same areas . A strictly personal comment
now : According to me he word "hybrid " is all too often a selling argument
for some seashell dealers and I do not buy this . Franck
-------Message original-------
De : Conchologists of America List
Date : 03/17/04 01:15:39
A : [log in to unmask]
Sujet : Re: Re: Réf. : Re: Harpa Hybrids
Hello Franck,
I am truly sorry, as “unwise” was not meant in an offensive manner. It was
just concluding my introductory point of view on the discussion, and was
not a direct reference to any of the participators, but rather used to
hypothetically enforce my opinion.
I have only assumed the mere possibility of hybridisation, because it is
usual to capture either Harpa amouretta, Harpa major or ventricosa in the
same location and even the same sand pockets, while shelling in their
distribution range. I am lead to believe there could be frequent
interaction between species.
I have few experience with Harpa davidis, but wouldn’t H. major and
articularis co-exist in the same region?
It is very pleasing to know that you are an experienced Harpidae collector,
as I will know who to look for when my doubts are installed. I am also
positive you will easily identify Rick´s specimens.
In the post-scriptum I am sending details on the supposed humanzee, and
general human hybridization.
All the best,
David Costa
P.S “Oliver: male, 30ish, very hairy, height 1.2 meters, weight 50 kilos,
erect posture, unusual ears, offensive odor. Oscar always walks on two
feet, uses a human toilet (which he flushes), can mix drinks, and enjoys a
cup of coffee and a nightcap. Chimps ignore him; humans wonder what he is.
Superficially, Oscar is definitely chimp-like; but shave his head and he
becomes eerily human(....)But now, scientists want to count his chromosomes
and find out what he really is. One suggestion is a cross between a
chimpanzee and a bonobo (a "pygmy chimpanzee"). Or how about a chimp-human
hybrid? There have been dark rumours of hush-hush experiments in China,
Italy, and the U.S. “
(Holden, Constance; "'Mutant' Chimp Gets a Gene Check," Science, 274:727,
1996. Also: Anonymous; "Oo-be-doo, I Want to Be Like You," Fortean Times,
no. 95, p. 15, February 1997.)
“It was very hard to predict what was happening in that brain and generally
he acted more human than chimp in a lot of settings," said Ken DeCroo, an
anthropologist and animal trainer who owned Oliver.
"One time he was out of coffee. I never trained him to do this, but maybe
he knew it from the past. He got up from the table, walked into the
kitchen, picked up the coffee pot, poured coffee into my cup, then into
his, and then took the pot back into the kitchen," DeCroo said. "But here's
the chimp part. He's making a terrible mess. His brain is telling him what
to do, but his body isn't quite doing it. But he had the awareness. He
understood where all the elements fit and that I was out of coffee. It was
shocking."
Ely and Moore hope to complete their work on Oliver by June in time to
present the findings to a convention of primatologists in San Diego.
Last October, Greenpeace Germany dug up a patent claim for a similar human-
animal hybrid, only this time it involved a pig. U.S.-based Biotransplant
and Australia-based Stem Cell Sciences grew a pig-human embryo to 32 cells
before ending its life.
"If the embryo had lived, it would be 95% human," said Michael Khoo, a
genetic engineering campaigner for Greenpeace's Toronto branch. "The
possibilities are not only frightening, but it's unknown just how many
other similar patent applications are out there."
Meanwhile, critics and futurists are having a field day speculating on the
future of biotechnology.
"Chimpanzees share between 95% and 98% of our genes, so the prospect of
creating a human-chimpanzee hybrid are highly probable," Rifkin said. "The
question becomes: What percentage of human genes will it take before human
rights kick in? Would a hybrid have to look and talk like a human before it
can get human rights?"
While the concept of making and owning such a creation for 20 years under
patent law is controversial to say the least, the science behind combining
animal eggs and human DNA could be useful, said Cross. "In the case of
Dolly, it took 277 eggs to get the sheep. In normal IVF programs, the
number of eggs you get usually ranges between five and 10. So, to solve a
potential shortage, some scientists have considered using an egg from a
different species to house human DNA."
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