Tom,

Well, the discussion was about hybridization, and not on parthenogenesis. A
deviation into that ditrection is OK with me, no problem. There are mollusks
that are parthenogenetic as written before (not only by me).
And, sorry, but "... there have to be examples..." is not good enough for
me. Self fertilizatuion or self pollinisation is not good enough. I want two
indviduals, male and female of a hybrid, with fertile offspring (i.e. hybrid
x hybrid) and so on for about 10 generations. Drosophila will do, any proven
case.

Just hope you didn't pay too much for the Euprotomus aurora......
Do you have contact with Charles Krijnen from the Netherlands? He's a friend
of mine and studies nerites as well......

Gijs
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas E. Eichhorst" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: hybrids, Lambis, population


> Gijs,
>
> I would think that there have to be examples of what you are talking
about -
> even if rare.  But, the reptiles were the only ones I could come up with.
>
> I just picked up my first specimen of Strombus aurora - very nice!  It is
> good to see folks still interested in this family.  Now I have to get back
> to my nerites.
>
> Tom
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Conchologists of America List [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On
> > Behalf Of Gijs C. Kronenberg
> > Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 12:04 PM
> > To: [log in to unmask]
> > Subject: Re: hybrids, Lambis, population
> >
> >
> > Dear Tom,
> >
> > Dr. Campbell did mention a few: Sphaeridae (Bivalvia) are
parthenogenetic,
> > and I once read [have to look up the reference] a paper on a fresh water
> > gastropod where males are extremely rare, and parthenogenesis is
> > very likely
> > [if not a rule]
> >
> > If the lizards don't read or understand our textbooks (rule books) and
go
> > about life in an unexpected fashion they should be wiped
> > out........[sorry,
> > joke].
> >
> > So, it appears that we have an example, but this seems to be a ver rare
> > occasion with some "special" conditions; i.e. parthenogenesis after
> > hybridisation. I understand that within reptiles parthenogenesis arose
> > several times independantly, so why not in a hybrid..
> > But what I was looking for was a hybrid population of males and females
> > which was self sustaining, i.e. after mating, fertilisation etc. for
some
> > generations.
> >
> > Gijs
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Thomas E. Eichhorst" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 4:17 PM
> > Subject: Re: hybrids, Lambis, population
> >
> >
> > > Gijs,
> > >
> > > I believe the parthenogentic part was in reference to the hybrid that
is
> > now
> > > a species.  Where I live we have Cnemidophoorus neomexicanus Lowe &
> > Zweifel,
> > > 1952 (the New Mexican whiptail lizard).  The NM whiptail is an
> > "allodiploid
> > > parthenogenotic" species that was originally created through
> > hybridization
> > > between C. inornatus (the paternal parent) and C. tigris marmoratus
(the
> > > maternal parent).  C. neomexicanus is a viable species that reproduces
> > > parthenogenitically - the females lay eggs that are always female.  No
> > males
> > > involved.  As for other hybrids sucessfully breeding, I believe this
has
> > > happened in reptiles.  Sometimes these animals just don't read or
> > understand
> > > our textbooks (rule books) and go about life in an unexpected fashion.
> > > There are a number of parthenogenitic reptiles, but I have yet
> > to hear of
> > > such in the Mollusca (a problem of observation maybe?).
> > >
> > > Tom Eichhorst in New Mexico, USA (where it was 82 degrees F yesterday,
a
> > new
> > > record)
> > >
> >
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