Oups, this was supposed to be a personal mail to Lyle...
And it is Low Tide Shells, not "Low Tides". My apologies.
Bruno
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Conchologists List [mailto:[log in to unmask]]De la part de
Bruno
Envoye : vendredi 3 juin 2005 09:58
A : [log in to unmask]
Objet : Re: Conus milneedwardsi - why no nominative form?
Dear Lyle,
About the size of C. milnedwardsi clytospira : a supplier from India
recently offer me a wholesale deal of 25 specimens, in the range 110 mm to
172 mm, with a average size of 120 mm.
But I don't know the average size of Mozambique's ones. On Low Tides site
there is a bunch of small ones, 58 to 100 mm.
Best regards
Bruno
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Conchologists List [mailto:[log in to unmask]]De la part de
Lyle Therriault
Envoye : vendredi 3 juin 2005 03:10
A : [log in to unmask]
Objet : Re: Conus milneedwardsi - why no nominative form?
I guess it would be true to some extent that both milneedwardsi and
clytospira can reach large proportions, tho in my own experiences i have
seen many more very large milneedwardsi than I have clytospira....again I
would tend to agree that on a whole both species would reach large sizes
but i do think that milneedwardsi reaches those sizes more
frequently....maybe I should word it like that.
I do have a Red Sea version of milneedwardsi....trusting the data on the
slip...looks just like any milneedwardsi that would come from someplace
other than the Red Sea. Really no difference in size, coloration or pattern
that is noticable. And I dont have enough specimens to really do a fair
study on them either to see if there was any differences from specimens
taken in the Red Sea area.
One would have to presume, albeit sight unseen at least from here in the
US, that the holotype would be a juvenile specimen at 46 mm. I have seen
some specimens in the 60mm+ range like Carlos mentioned but the ones I have
seen didnt seem to be fully "developed" for lack of a better word they
were more than likely "older teenage" specimens , not juveniles but not
fully adult either. Perhaps another subspecies? Does anyone know for sure
if form kawamurai is strictly found in Japanese waters, or can it be found
elsewhere.
Does anyone else have any thoughts on this? I am curious to know if anyone
else out there has the same frustrations.
~Lyle
> [Original Message]
> From: Carlos Duraes de Carvalho <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: 6/2/2005 6:25:51 PM
> Subject: Re: Conus milneedwardsi - why no nominative form?
>
> Dear Manolo
> I have a number of Conus milneedwardsii from Mozambique, none with 46mm,
> but I have seen some with about 60mmm, so I think 46mm is possible. I
> agree with you that it is necessary to see the holotype.
> Best regards to all
> Carlos www.shellscarvalho.com
>
> -----Mensagem original-----
> De: Conchologists List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Em nome de
> Manuel J. Tenorio
> Enviada: quinta-feira, 2 de Junho de 2005 21:12
> Para: [log in to unmask]
> Assunto: Re: Conus milneedwardsi - why no nominative form?
>
>
> Dear friends:
> This is a very good point. Many other cases like this do in fact exist:
> an
> old description in which the name has been commonly used (or misused) to
> design another completely different species. I haven't checked myself
> the
> holotype of milneedwardsi which shoud be in Paris, but I will try.
> However, the original description is available online. Please check at
> the
> wonderful Alan Kohn's site by following this link:
> http://biology.burke.washington.edu/conus/catalogue/sources/Jousseaume,%
> 20F.%201894.%20Bull.%20Soc.%20Philom.%20Paris%20(8).%20vi.pdf
>
> The article is in french with the original description in latin. What I
> can say is that apparently Josseaume did described something that sounds
> like a miniature milneedwardsi (according to our modern standards). It
> is
> clearly assigned to the textile group and the high spire is the most
> relevant character mentioned. The type locality is Aden (Yemen), and all
> the species described in the article come from the Red Sea. This is odd,
> because I do not recall that typical milneedwardsii had been found in
> the
> Red Sea, at least recently.
> AS I said before, I must have a look at the holotype, but it could
> actually happen that the original milneedwardsi resulted to be something
> different to the "modern" large milneedwardsi, typically from
> Mozambique.
> If so, clytospira would probably take its place as nominal species, and
> then the subspecies from Mozambique would eventually require a new name!
> What about "conus clytospira conch-lerorum"? ha ha
>
> Warmest regards to all
>
> Manuel Jimenez Tenorio
> Jerez, SPAIN
>
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