To The List, In my case when i decide to sell a Type specimen from my collection, my reasons are my own. But because of collectors "chit-chat" i'll explain a few things. Angaria lilianae M&M, 2000 In the 90's i ran across a unknown Angaria reported from the Rachas while in Phuket. Took 3 trips running in the thousands of dollars to fly over to dive this area to procure only a handful to get this properly named. I gave up the Holotype & Paratype to be deposited and another Paratype for the author's refference collection of Angaria. If i sold the few remaining pieces it wouldn't even cover 1/2 the plane fare for even 1 trip not including hotels, transfers, food, chartering cost. Sassia melpangi H&B, 2007 This came up in experimental traps for red shrimp in 1,200ft off North Oahu using sub-sonic buoys. We abondoned this due to raging currents that resulted in loses of the set-ups. Again most of what was brought up i donated to the museums, at my cost. Fusinus mauiensis C&S, 2006 In the 80's-90's i put one of my boats on a interisland barge and rented a condo to get info and specimens of this species. This sparked a resurgence of interest in this species and the Malacologists of the Philly Museum wrote and clarrified this species as a Hawaiian endemic. Between the airfare, barging of boat & truck, lodging & food, there is no way this species could pay for this. Cypraea cicercula takahashii Moretzsohn, 2007 I first brought this project to another who didn't want to represent the species, primarily due to "his own" reasons. Dr Moretzsohn was kind enough to follow through. I spent many night dives in deep water by myself gathering live specimens for DNA work as well as comparative studies. Took years working on this to do it right. Results were based on DNA, radula, and conchological studies. I had enough specimens to name +60 paratypes but chose not to. Instead fewer specimens were designated as Paratypes and many Topotypes were given out for study. This gesture showed no monetary schemes were in place because i ended up with 1/2 less Paratype extras as originaly promised. If i sold all my Paratypes it wouldn't cover the gas, food, mailings, and time spent over the years gathering this species. Cypraea hinuhinu Moretzsohn, 2011 Again Dr Moretzsohn was kind enough to name this. Mike Severns was also kind enough to correspond this to his new book, where it was named. Took me my whole life to gather a few specimens and i gave my best away as the Holotype. Really burns me when i hear collectors who know nothing on what transpires behind the scenes, give negative commentary. With hinuhinu included Cypraea pseudonucleus Moretzsohn, 2011 that i also iniated with Dr Moretzsohn. These projects took years in the making. Pleurotomaria- Obornella thompsonorum, Bathrotomaria annejoffeae, Bathrotomaria bedetteae, and Leptomaria takahashii H&K, 2007 These 4 species were new to science. I donated a huge box containing multiple specimens of each species to the Smithsonian. And i never got any of the types back though one species was named after me. There are a few more projects in the works so i won't comment here on them. In short i tend to lose money, not make money, when i decide to part with a Type specimen. After i pass my remaining Types are willed to our local Bishop Museum. None of my ventures to further Malacological advancement was ever to make money. In fact all ventures lost me money. In some cases original material was lost(ie new Easter Island species that i found i sent to Rehder, but after he passed the material was never recovered). I did everything to help further our knowledge of our hobby. I've been blessed with a good collecting eye that many said was like Peter Clarkson of Australia, a great compliment. I've been beach walking since 4, snorkeling since 10, scuba since 17. Now im a mixed gas diver and have traveled afar diving for shells. Also experimented with nets, traps, and dredges. I love what i do as a hobby and a business. So when i get "kicked" by collectors who don't understand what i do or how i've contributed to our knowledge of mollusks, well i get angry. Im here shell collecting because Charlie Wolfe became my mentor, my business was established in the 70's due to Rich Goldberg & Robert Janowsky, my scientific nature was fueled by Dr Moretzsohn & Harasewych, and my inspiration was Bill Cargile and Wayne Harland. I really appreciate what G. Thomas Watters, PhD had to say about this thread below, thanks. Chris The heyday of institutions sending out research vessels to collect specimens has largely passed, with a few exceptions. It is the commercial "dealers" who are now supplying the new material and investigating the new areas. They are a business and obviously need to make a profit to survive. But in my experience these "dealers" (such a negatively loaded word) are more than willing to sacrifice their profits for the advancement of malacology. Yet I have heard "professional" malacologists rant against commercial collectors - fine, put up or shut up. Given all of this, it is not uncommon today for an "amateur" collector of a new species to say "OK, I'll give the specimens you need to describe this species, specimens I collected at my own personal expense, which I do NOT have to share with anyone [often specimens NOT in any museum] to say "but I want a paratype." Really? A token specimen so that a new species can be brought to light that would otherwise remain unknown? Believe me, I would like all types to be in a museum, but if the science is not "footing the bill" then they have no right to complain. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [log in to unmask] - a forum for informal discussions on molluscs To leave this list, click on the following web link: http://listserv.uga.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=conch-l&A=1 Type your email address and name in the appropriate box and click leave the list. ----------------------------------------------------------------------