John, Seems to me the best way to test the accuracy/comprehensiveness of your definition would be to compare it to the definitions of "self-collected" in the numerous shell show rules across the globe. Marlo From: Conchologists List <[log in to unmask]> On Behalf Of John Timmerman Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2024 12:32 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [CONCH-L] self-collected I was recently asked for a definition of a self-collected shell(s). At the moment I defined "self-collected" as a specimen recovered directly or indirectly from the environment in which it occurred either by direct picking by hand and or operating or participation in the operation of equipment such a dredge, to bring it into hand. Purchasing, a gift or trade of shells from another collector or business is not self-collected. In pondering the definition, it appears my definition may be inaccurate. Examples I have long considered fossils personally collected at commercial strip mines as self-collected. Collecting at such sites sometimes involves removing the fossil directly from undisturbed sediments but more frequently from highly disturbed "spoils" cast aside by the mining operation. Is this truly self-collecting or scavenging off of cast-off "trash?" Collecting such sites is collecting directly in context of where the specimens occurred compared to collecting specimens from the "product" material such as a road elsewhere. If I find a shell in a road where fill was brought in from for example, a commercial sea scallop boat as I once experienced at Ocracoke, North Carolina, is that self-collected or more along the line of scavenging. The exact source location the material was fished was unknown other than concluding it was somewhere in the range of Placopecten magellanica as that was the majority of the shell content. When a beach is renourished, shells and fossils often become available that were not before. Is picking up that material self-collected? I regard picking up shells from an undisturbed beach as self-collected. Is there a difference? Years ago, I visited a scallop dump and came home with some banded tulips that still hold position of pride in my cabinets. Did I self-collect those shells? They were pretty much ignored by other people. As they came from a trash dump were they not really collected by me but scavenged from collecting someone else did by proxy in that they were after other things and accidentally caught what I found once they threw it away? Some collecting could certainly be considered scavenging. Picking up a dead shell from a beach is scavenging the remains of a formerly living mollusk. The shell is out of context from the original habitat of where the mollusk lived and may have been moved considerable distance from where it lived by ocean currents and wave action. I regard that as self-collected. These are a few of the musings I have on the definition. All input, opinion is invited and welcome. John Timmerman ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> - a forum for informal discussions on molluscs To leave this list, click on the following web link: http://listserv.uga.edu/scripts/wa-UGA.exe?SUBED1=conch-l-L <http://listserv.uga.edu/scripts/wa-UGA.exe?SUBED1=conch-l-L&A=1> &A=1 Type your email address and name in the appropriate box and click leave the list. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [log in to unmask] - a forum for informal discussions on molluscs To leave this list, click on the following web link: http://listserv.uga.edu/scripts/wa-UGA.exe?SUBED1=conch-l-L&A=1 Type your email address and name in the appropriate box and click leave the list. ----------------------------------------------------------------------