Here are four more cartographic ballads.-------------Johnnie ------------------------------------------------ Fri, 11 Feb 94 22:23:27 PST Dave Gomberg <[log in to unmask]> Re: Cartographic ballads Another ballad nomination: Geologic map of the Grand Canyon NP, don't recall the publisher but the visitor's center book store carries them at a very fair price ($8?). Dave Dave Gomberg, role model for those who don't ask much in their fantasy lives. GOMBERG@UCSFVM Internet node UCSFVM.UCSF.EDU fax-> (415)731-7797 For info on West Coast Live send email to [log in to unmask] --------------------------------------------------------- [log in to unmask] Sat, 12 Feb 94 22:23:00 BST Cartographic ballads Reply: Item #2207484 from [log in to unmask]@inet#on 94/02/09 at 09:17 Darius Bartlett's question comparing maps and ballads is, I think, right on target, but it opens up several cans of worms: The assumption of scientific cartography is that one can accurately and dispassionately record the earth or any other physical thing, by using strict classification of information, and rigorous measurement. Any document created faithfully under these guidelines will necesarily be, as Darius says, a "fairly dry reference document." And maps not created under this set of rules are by necessity suspect. There are, of course, extremely detailed AND beautiful maps. Swiss mountain cartography comes to mind, and Portolan Charts. But in these cases, one can easily separate the beautiful elements from those in which accuracy is embedded. It's like in old Bartholomew 1/4 and 1/2 inch series maps, where the black information was taken directly from Ordnance Survey Maps, and the color, which makes the maps so beautiful, was added by Bart's. The problem in comparing a beautiful ballad with a map is that one comes out of oral, fluid tradition, and one comes out of a modern, scientific corpus. There is an belief, I think, that if you collected all the rigorously collected data in the world, it could be recostituted into one, more-or-less seamless GIS. That is, a topo sheet, a plat map, a navigation chart, and an aerial photograph all show the same coastline, and any variation is due to inaccuracy and the need to generalize. The same is not true for traditional information. There may be commonalities (indeed much of 19th-century folklore studies, not to mention modern mythology are based on finding the single Hero With 1000 Faces), but one of the things that makes traditional information different from recorded information is that it can legitimately change from place to place and person to person. It's much harder to tell someone singing a ballad that they're singing it wrong, unless they are trying to learn it from you right there and then. A good example of a ballad-map might be some of the maps made for white explorers by indigenous guides, as explored in the history of cartography conference last year in Chicago. In general, material on "Terrae Incognitae" was collected from traditional rather than scientific sources, and reflects this in its variety across time (and its often wide divergence from the finally measured reality) I was going to suggest mappaemundi as a second example of maps as ballads, but really these are more like anthems or hymns. One might embellish them, but there is a religiously-based set of information one must adhere to: you must put Jerusalem at the center, regardless of were you may be. Perhaps a better analogy for modern maps is classical orchestral music, where there is a score, and one gets pleasure not from hearing the notes, but from hearing how they are played. The information is constant, the interpretation is what changes. I have a related question: is it possible to create a map as a SUCCESSFUL, INDEPENDENT work of fiction? This has been bothering me for some time, and I don't have a definitive answer. ----------------------------------------------------- Mon, 14 Feb 94 09:28:33 CST jim coombs <JAC324F@SMSVMA> I'd like to contribute *Pictorial maps*, a book by Nigel Holmes. Its full of maps as art, both historical and modern. There's even a world map where the continents are depicted as musical instruments (p.98). Also, have Erwin Raisz's or Richard Edes Harrison's maps been mentioned? Jim Coombs Map Librarian Southwest Missouri State Univ. ------------------------------------------------- [log in to unmask] (Jim Carter) Cartographic Ballad selection Mon, 14 Feb 1994 14:45:27 -0600 (CST) Sorry I did not get to respond when things were hot and heavy. The map that came to mind immediately is the USGS 1:62,500 shaded relief quad of Ashby, Nebraska. This portrays the sand hills of northwest Nebraska. Every time I see that sheet I was to start scratching my body. There is something about the visual texture of that map that makes me think of irritated skin. My other choice is the Thelin and Pike Shaded Relief map of the US as generated from 1:250,000 DEMs. The version I have mounted on my wall is the Raven Maps edition. I have had people touch the map to feel the texture of the 3D surface. Jim Carter, Professor Geography / Geology Department Illinois State University