I also have a teenager who mostly claims to want to be doing whatever we are not. I will not easily forget a particular walk up a mountain side that nearly degenerated into a divorce/family murder etc. However my middle son (12 yrs) is always game to come snailing in the bush with me. Last time we went out he had a lot to say about it afterwards though. For two reasons: first I did not tell him that there would be lots of stinging nettle-type plants where we were going (I didn't know either!) and second (worse) because two younger GIRLS would be coming with us (Yuck it seems, at least for now???) On the other hand the two year old will do anything his Dad does and loves to look at snails and other "gggggs" (but not exactly to hold the big Achatinas). Mom/wife watches this lot with bemusement but was gracious enough to give up some desk space to make a place for a terrarium full of big Achatinas. As far other folk with shelly family members :remember, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. --------------------------------------- Mike Cortie South Africa phone RSA-11-709-4485 email [log in to unmask] ---------------------------------------