Just so Ecuador does not find itself on the sheller's blacklist of rogue countries with a specific grudge against shell collectors, I would like to elaborate a little on what I said earlier. As Marlo found out, you can't cram a lot into one e-mail and so I abreviated somewhat the situation here. The permit requirements in Ecuador do not specifically apply to shell collectors or even to mollusks, rather they apply to plants and animals in general. I am quite sure that when these regulations were formulated that mollusks were not at the top of the priority list of organisms in need of protection. In fact, the real intent of the law is not so much to protect the environment but, as I said, to prevent profiteering by foreigners. Ecuador, like many small tropical countries (at least in Latin America) is paranoid about having its "genetic resources" ripped off. Thus, they are suspicious of anyone who wishes to collect or export live animals or plants because they suspect that a prime motivation for this activity is the development of new drugs or other products for which they will receive nothing. Since they don't have a good knowledge of the biological resources of the country and they don't have enough money or trained biologists to deal with the situation, they feel that the solution is to be found in very restrictive regulation of collecting. There is some truth to their fears but their position is more than a little disingenuous. Arrow poison frogs were taken from Ecuador and are being used in the development of new anesthetics; typically Ecuadorian fruits were removed to New Zealand and are now produced there. On the other hand, Ecuador is the world's leading producer of bananas (a non-American crop) and it continues to introduce new animal and plant cultivars at an amazing rate (sometimes with unfortunate environmental consequences), including crayfish, oysters, Helix, bullfrogs, tilapia, trout, mangos, macadamia nuts, kiwi fruit, and so on. Ecuador has not offered to pay any country or ethnic group for these genetic resources. Are the collecting regulations in Ecuador absurd? Of course they are. Could they be improved? Of course, and maybe they will be since I understand the regulations are once again being revised (even though the current incarnation is less than a year old). It is unfortunate that one byproduct of the Ecuadorian fear of biological piracy (as they call it) is that shell collecting for fun is not legally possible. But just because we may disagree with the intent or the form of the law does not mean we are justified in ignoring it. Shell collecting is not really an inalienable right or grounds for civil disobedience. As Jenny pointed out, shell collectors are part of the problem of species loss or at least they are perceived by some people to be. This being so, we need to find ways to improve our behavior. One way is to respect collecting laws not only in our own country but also in other countries. That means, among other things, not buying shells if the seller can't certify that they were legally acquired. Maybe this will raise shell prices and make some species unavailable. So be it. It might also force shell fishermen and dealers in countries with restrictive legislation to work with their government to create better laws. kate ~ ~ ~ ~ Howard L. Clark or Kate Clark / [log in to unmask] / tel. (593-2) 224897 or 541215 / cellular tel. (593-9) 496593 / P.O. Box 17-12-379, Quito, Ecuador ~ ~ ~ ~