-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Gazetteers and Geonames
Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 10:57:40 -0400
From: Jennifer E Runyon <[log in to unmask]>
To: Maps, Air Photo & Geospatial Systems Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Some additional clarification from our colleagues at NGA. I had
forwarded the earlier e-mail thread to Randy Flynn (quoted in the
5/10/07 response to Mr. Diaz, and included below); he has asked that I
send this along to you all (GNS = GEONet Names Server):
What I did not make clear in my response to Carlos Diaz way down in the
thread below is that the GNS, like the GNIS, is cumulative -- we don't
delete names except in cases of obvious duplication. So it's a rare case
where a researcher might find an entry in an old BGN/DMA gazetteer that is
not currently still found in the GNS.
I hope this helps a little. (Randy regrets he could not respond
directly to MAPS-L; NGA's firewall restrictions prevent them from
accessing listserves). But I will forward along the latest comments,
since I know NGA appreciates knowing the opinions/recommendations of
this group.
Regards,
Jenny
**************************************
Jennifer Runyon, research staff
U.S. Board on Geographic Names (BGN) / Domestic Names Committee
U.S. Geological Survey, Geographic Names Office
Reston, VA 20192-0523
(703) 648-4550
(703) 648-4549 fax
[log in to unmask]
GNIS: http://geonames.usgs.gov
Maps-L <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: "Maps, Air Photo & Geospatial Systems Forum"
<[log in to unmask]>
05/14/2007 10:33 AM
Please respond to
"Maps, Air Photo & Geospatial Systems Forum"
<[log in to unmask]>
To
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cc
Subject
Gazetteers and Geonames
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: Gazetteers and Geonames
Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 09:00:00 -0500
From: Kent Lee <[log in to unmask]>
To: 'Maps, Air Photo & Geospatial Systems Forum'
<[log in to unmask]>
Hello MAPS-L,
Interesting question from April. To my knowledge NGA's GEONet is no longer
made available (by NGA, at least) in different historical versions or
"snapshots." That kind of used to be the case when NGA's predecessor
published a CD-ROM called the "Digital Interim Geographic Names Gazetteer;"
the last version I am aware of is the 2nd edition of 1997. But I suspect
this publication has been discontinued.
Now, the onus of preservation appears to be on the end user. NGA makes this
relatively easy. It is possible to right to the respective NGA page and
download the country "snapshot" files, which change from time to time:
http://earth-info.nga.mil/gns/html/namefiles.htm
Here one can see that most files are dated 2007 (Feb 28 was a busy day), but
earlier versions of the same files are not to be found. So if you did not
save them yourself, you are out of luck--unless you can find someone else
who did.
Here's a case where systematic preservation could yield some interesting
results. Consider the evolution of official US interpretation of
Afghanistan's placenames from the time of the last published print gazetteer
(1983) and today's version of the GEONet database. Change has been quite
significant. The 1983 gazetteer contains less than 15,000 names (my crude
estimate); only because we happened to be doing some work on this country I
have some old GEONet snapshots: in March 2004 the count was 109,000; in Feb
2006, 176,000; today, 202,000. It is public knowledge that NGA discovered
some significant discrepancies with its placenames in Afghanistan in the
aftermath of the October 2001 military operations it had to support. As a
consequence, some erroneous names were filtered out and more and
better-quality names were added. But which names were deleted--it's hard to
say. One can imagine a scenario where troops on the ground or analysts were
faced with confusion (or worse) when placenames in a database or on a map do
not appear to be where they really are. Researchers interested in studying
this question would ideally have authoritative sources available to them.
Perhaps NGA has saved its old placename database snapshots and could one day
make them systematically available to the academic and library community.
It the meantime, you have to do it yourself.
One plug in favor of the old print gazetteers: they list principal sources
and country-specific glossaries of generic terms. The current (public
version) GEONet database does not list sources for placenames, so one can
only guess where the names come from. And the glossaries are really
convenient to use when presented on a country-specific basis in the same
publication as the placenames, as opposed to searching for them elsewhere.
All told, though, NGA's GEONet is still the best database of its kind in the
world, and hopefully will continue to be made publicly available. A few
minor modifications of NGA's public database preservation policy would
benefit the future in ways we might never imagine.
Kent Lee
East View Cartographic
-----Original Message-----
From: Maps, Air Photo & Geospatial Systems Forum
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Maps-L
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 7:21 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Gazetteers and Geonames
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [MAPS-L] Gazetteers and Geonames
Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 12:04:40 +0100
From: Carlucci, April <[log in to unmask]>
To: Maps, Air Photo & Geospatial Systems Forum <[log in to unmask]>
Hi Carlos
I would agree with Ed (hi Ed!) that if you can manage it, you should
keep the paper versions. In addition to Ed's points, there's also the
issue of changes in placenames over time, so that you might need
something older to search previous names.
Which brings up another point. Is the GEONet names server another
database that is happy to provide the latest information, but doesn't
keep the older information? If so, who does? After all, in the end,
everything turns into history!
April
April Carlucci
Cataloguing Manager and Curator of Modern Maps
British Library Map Collections
-----Original Message-----
From: Maps, Air Photo & Geospatial Systems Forum
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Maps-L
Sent: 10 May 2007 22:21
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [MAPS-L] Gazetteers and Geonames
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Gazetteers and Geonames
Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 16:53:50 -0400
From: Edward James Redmond <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Carlos:
If you have the space I vote for keeping the bound foreign gazetteers.
Some place name mysteries can only be solved by pawing through the bound
volumes for transliteration possibilities and coordinate comparisons.
We removed the domestic (state) equivalents from our public RR shelves
to our closed stack shelves as a) GNIS is easier to use than GeoNet and
b) there are commercial equivalents already on our shelves.
Ed
Ed Redmond
Geography & Map Reference Specialist
Geography and Map Division
Library of Congress
101 Independence Ave, SE
Washington, DC 20540-4651
(202) 707-8548
[log in to unmask]
-------------------------------------------
The views expressed in this message are solely mine
and do not necessarily represent those of the Library of Congress.
>>> Maps-L <[log in to unmask]> 05/10/07 4:15 PM >>>
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: FW: Gazetteers and Geonames
Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 09:04:11 -0700
From: Diaz, Carlos <[log in to unmask]>
To: GOVDOC-L (E-mail) <[log in to unmask]>, Government Documents
Processing Listserv (E-mail) <[log in to unmask]>, Maps-L
(E-mail) <[log in to unmask]>
I was going through our stacks to see what documents I can discard from
our collection when I saw all these old gazetteers from the 1970s and
1980s published by the Defense Department.
As a result, I sent an email to the folks at NGIA to see if they publish
the gazetteers and if not, to verify if GNIS supersedes the old
gazetteers. Response below.
Now, if GNIS does supersede the old gazetteers, is there any value in
retaining the old gazetteers?
Carlos A. Diaz
Government Documents/Maps
The Evergreen State College
Olympia, Washington
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: Flynn, Randall E. [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 8:36 AM
To: Diaz, Carlos
Subject: RE: Gazetteers and Geonames
Mr. Diaz,
My apologies for the delay in getting back to you.
The GEOnet Names Server which you cite below has superseded the hardcopy
gazetteers previously issued by the Defense Mapping Agency on behalf of
the
US Board on Geographic Names. We no longer have an active hardcopy
gazetteer publication program.
Hope this helps,
Randy
Randall E. Flynn
Geographer, National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency
Executive Secretary, Foreign Names, US Board on Geographic Names
-----Original Message-----
From: Diaz, Carlos [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 9:14 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Gazetteers and Geonames
Dear Mr. Flynn,
I am hoping you can clarify something for me.
Our library has a number of gazetteers that were published in the 1970s
and
1980s by the Defense Mapping Agency.
What I was wondering was if the GNIS website for Foreign Names located
at
the link below:
http://gnswww.nga.mil/geonames/GNS/index.jsp
supersedes the paper versions that were published that long ago?
If not, are there any updated versions (paper, electronic, etc.)
available.
Thank you for your help on this matter.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
,-~~-.___.
/ | ' \ "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of
( ) 0 the few or the one."
\_/-, ,----'
==== // Mr. Spock
/ \-'~; /~~~(O) Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan
/ __/~| / |
=( _____| (_________|
Carlos A. Diaz
Government Documents Specialist
Government Documents/Maps
Daniel J. Evans Library
The Evergreen State College
Mailstop L-2309
Olympia, WA 98505
[log in to unmask]
http://www.evergreen.edu/library/govdocs/index.html
GovDocs/Maps Desk: (360) 867-6165
Carlos' phone: (360) 867-6251
fax: (360) 866-6790
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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