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From:
Edward Sullivan <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Maps-L: Map Librarians, etc.
Date:
Thu, 13 Sep 2018 20:34:48 +0000
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The current legal ownership of 'navigable' and 'sovereignty' submerged land appears to be a vexed issue in Florida:


https://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/smacks-bayou-homeowners-learn-docks-land-underneath-arent-theirs/2173563


[https://www.tampabay.com/storyimage/HI/20140404/ARTICLE/304049546/AR/0/AR-304049546.jpg]<https://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/smacks-bayou-homeowners-learn-docks-land-underneath-arent-theirs/2173563>

St. Pete homeowners learn docks, land underneath aren't theirs<https://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/smacks-bayou-homeowners-learn-docks-land-underneath-arent-theirs/2173563>
www.tampabay.com
ST. PETERSBURG — Owners of waterfront property in the Northeast Park neighborhood are learning they might not own the docks in their back yards or the submerged land beneath. The revelation ...

https://floridadep.gov/lands/bureau-public-land-administration/content/submerged-lands-management
[https://floridadep.gov/sites/all/themes/basic/image_thumbs_png_gif_jpg.php?f=media-folders/media-root/Honeymoon%20Island%20State%20Park_contest_Daniel%20Ewert_01_0.jpg&w=250&h=140]<https://floridadep.gov/lands/bureau-public-land-administration/content/submerged-lands-management>

Submerged Lands Management | Florida Department of ...<https://floridadep.gov/lands/bureau-public-land-administration/content/submerged-lands-management>
floridadep.gov
Sovereignty submerged lands include, but are not limited to, tidal lands, islands, sandbars, shallow banks and lands waterward of the ordinary or mean high water line, beneath navigable fresh water or beneath tidally influenced waters. The state of Florida acquired title to sovereignty submerged lands on March 3, 1845, by virtue of statehood.

So it appears that unless the State of Florida has sold or granted access/use in perpetuity to a private coastal land-owner, the current landowners by default would not have legal possession of tidal and submerged lands adjacent to their landward property  (as defined in the second link....)

Edward Sullivan/Economic & Planning Systems.


________________________________
From: Maps-L: Map Librarians, etc. <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Kollen, Christine E - (kollen) <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2018 12:26 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Question about coastal property


Hi everyone”



I received the following email today. A very intriguing question – does anyone know the answer? The property in question is in Walton County, Florida.



Thanks!



Chris Kollen



From: Robert Reynolds <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2018 9:33 AM
To: Kollen, Christine E - (kollen) <[log in to unmask]>
Cc: Reynolds, Robert O - (rreynold) <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: Map question



Hi Chris;



Thanks for your help, but let me correct the information I have, and the question. I have a deed, full legal description, know the county (Walton, Florida). Assessor's deeds don't come with a map , and the maps I have are accurate but the resolution is not high enough (Duke Vickery, 2003). So here are the questions. The US has used a system for describing land since around 1783, so the date of the map doesn't matter. (1) Do you have a US map of Township 3 South Range 19 West (Tallahassee meridian), Section 15 and Section 22?  This type of map should be the most basic type of land map for anywhere in the US, so the library should have access to these. (2) When a US deed, anywhere in the US, lists a number of acres after the legal description of the property, does that include land under water?  This is not a joke or a trick question - it's an important legal consideration for every piece of property.  We don't need to consider international waters or law, since land sections aren't that big.  If you don't know the answer, could you please try to find a person or reference material that might address this?  The property in question is not a Government lot.



Thanks again for your help;

Robert



On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 1:48 PM, Kollen, Christine E - (kollen) <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:

Hi Robert:



Ellen Knight referred your question to me. I’m assuming the deed includes a legal description? You may want to check with the County Assessor’s Office for the county the property is located in.



I’m not aware of how property bordering an ocean (or other bodies of water) are handled. I’d also want to check on the map you’re using, what’s the source of the map, is it from the county assessor’s office? If it isn’t, you may want to check on what the scale of the map is.



Chris Kollen



From: Knight, Ellen S - (knighte)
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 12:32 PM
To: Kollen, Christine E - (kollen) <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
Subject: Map question



Chris,

I just got off the phone with a retired faculty member who has a question that he defined as a map question but I am not so sure after talking to him.



Robert O Reynolds (621-1833) [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>



He is researching the ownership of a plot of land. The deed includes acerage but he is unable to match the acreage to the information he is seeing on his map. The plot of land includes shorline along an ocean. Would the acerage include land that is underwater?



Can you answer this question or refer the question to someone who might be able to answer?



Ellen



Ellen Knight

Manager of Resource Sharing and Streaming Services

Delivery, Description and Acquisitions (DDA)



University of Arizona Library

Interlibrary Loan

1510 E. University Blvd<https://maps.google.com/?q=1510+E.+University+Blvd+%0D%0A+Tucson,+Arizona+85721+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+520&entry=gmail&source=g>

Tucson, Arizona<https://maps.google.com/?q=1510+E.+University+Blvd+%0D%0A+Tucson,+Arizona+85721+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+520&entry=gmail&source=g>  85721<https://maps.google.com/?q=1510+E.+University+Blvd+%0D%0A+Tucson,+Arizona+85721+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+520&entry=gmail&source=g>



520<https://maps.google.com/?q=1510+E.+University+Blvd+%0D%0A+Tucson,+Arizona+85721+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+520&entry=gmail&source=g>-621-8753

[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>





--

Robert Reynolds

Large Binocular Telescope Observatory

University Of Arizona

933 N. Cherry Ave. Room 566

Tucson, AZ 85721

(520) 621-1833 office

(520) 429-9360 cell


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