-------- Original Message --------
Subject:        Re: The decline and fall of the descriptive gazetteer
Date:   Tue, 21 Jan 2014 11:27:00 +1100
From:   Judith Scurfield <[log in to unmask]>
To:     Maps, Air Photo, GIS Forum - Map Librarianship
<[log in to unmask]>



Descriptive gazetteers from an Australian perspective:
There are several descriptive gazetteers of states such as Victoria, New
South Wales and South Australia,  compiled by Robert P. Whitworth, under
the title "Bailliere's Gazetteer and Road Guide of ......",  in the
1860's - 70's. We also hold a small gazetteer of Australia compiled by
Alexander Gross for the London map publisher Geographia in c. 1920, but
the entries are very brief.
Our latest hard-copy edition of the Columbia Gazetteer of the World in 3
vols is 1998, and apparently publication goes back to 1893.

Regards,

*Judith Scurfield* | *Map Librarian *|*Access & Information*
State Library of Victoria | 328 Swanston Street | Melbourne VIC 3000
T +61 3 8664 7242 | [log in to unmask]




From: "Angie Cope, American Geographical Society Library,  UW Milwaukee"
<[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask],
Date: 16/01/2014 06:44 AM
Subject: Re: The decline and fall of the descriptive gazetteer
Sent by: "Maps, Air Photo, GIS Forum - Map Librarianship"
<[log in to unmask]>
------------------------------------------------------------------------




-------- Original Message --------
*Subject: *
        Re: The decline and fall of the descriptive gazetteer
*Date: *
        Wed, 15 Jan 2014 19:23:02 +0000
*From: *
        humphrey _<[log in to unmask]>_
<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
*To: *
        Angie Cope, American Geographical Society Library, UW Milwaukee
_<[log in to unmask]>_ <mailto:[log in to unmask]>




I don’t know much about Chinese gazetteers — but that is precisely why
Peter Bol at Harvard is my co-author on this chapter.

I am very aware that there are other parts of the world besides N
America, W Europe and China, and would be very interested in comments on
them …

Humphrey

On 15 Jan 2014, at 18:54, Angie Cope, American Geographical Society
Library, UW Milwaukee <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:


------- Original Message --------
*Subject: *
        Re: The decline and fall of the descriptive gazetteer
*Date: *
        Wed, 15 Jan 2014 12:37:46 -0500
*From: *
        Joel Kovarsky _<[log in to unmask]>_
<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
*To: *
        Maps, Air Photo, GIS Forum - Map Librarianship
_<[log in to unmask]>_ <mailto:[log in to unmask]>




I am assuming your focus is on Western European gazetteers, and perhaps
more focused on those British. Their history in China may be older:
_<http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2719404?uid=3739936&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21103277674257>_
<http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2719404?uid=3739936&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21103277674257>and
_<http://www.emeraldinsight.com/journals.htm?articleid=17066178&show=abstract>_
<http://www.emeraldinsight.com/journals.htm?articleid=17066178&show=abstract>.
Given my lack of linguistic skill, I have no idea how these structurally
compare to later western counterparts, although looking at that paper it
appears they tended to be quite regional.

Given your ongoing and extensive involvement with this subject, it would
not surprise me if you already knew this.


Joel Kovarsky

On 1/15/2014 12:15 PM, Angie Cope, American Geographical Society
Library, UW Milwaukee wrote:

forwarded by Angie

-------- Original Message --------
*Subject: *
        The decline and fall of the descriptive gazetteer
*Date: *
        Wed, 15 Jan 2014 16:27:32 +0000
*From: *
        humphrey _<[log in to unmask]>_
<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
*Reply-To: *
        A forum for issues related to map & spatial data librarianship
_<[log in to unmask]>_ <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
*To: *
        [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>




As some members of this list will know, I am co-editing a book about
gazetteers, especially future digital gazetteers; but also authoring an
introductory chapter which looks at the history of gazetteers, a
surprisingly little explored topic.

Our general point is that, although most people’s idea of a gazetteer is
simply a list of geographical names each with some kind of coordinate
and sometime with a simple “feature type”, like “settlement” or
“mountain”, there is an earlier history of gazetteers which provide
lengthy descriptions of each place/feature.

We have computerised several of these for our web site, A Vision of
Britain through Time, and are currently working on tidying up the
seven-volume "/Gazetteer of the World, or Dictionary of Geographical
Knowledge,/ published by Fullarton's of Edinburgh in 1856; this has
already been digitised within Google Books, but we are turning it into
clean database content. We estimate it contains around 80,000 entries
and 7m words, so the average entry is a couple of sentences, and many go
on for several pages. Similarly, this “entry” for Edinburgh in Groome’s
/Ordnance Gazetteer of Scotland/(1882-4) contains over 100,000 words:

_http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/descriptions/108700_

SUCH BOOKS ARE NOT SO MUCH PLACE DICTIONARIES AS PLACE ENCYCLOPAEDIAS. I
HAVE BEEN EXPLORING THEIR EARLY HISTORY, BUT THIS POSTING IS TO ASK
ABOUT THEIR LATER HISTORY, AFTER 1900.

My basic narrative at the moment is that descriptive gazetteers, as
distinct from itineraries, first appear in the mid to late seventeenth
century, and the lengthiest examples come from the second half of the
nineteenth century — but they then pretty much stop — when I have looked
at the shelves of gazetteers in various libraries I have mainly seen
books from the 19th century, occasionally earlier.

The exceptions seem to be:

— There are of course lots of atlases which also include a gazetteer at
the back (but this is about books which are primarily text)

— Bartholomew have kept publishing revised editions of their Gazetteer
of the British Isles (but that has relatively short entries, so more a
place dictionary than an encyclopaedia).

— Various guides aimed mainly at tourists are organised as sets of
alphabetically arranged entries about places, with descriptions; for
example, various Shell Guides. However, map libraries are less likely to
hold these.

IS THIS A FAIR NARRATIVE? WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BIG DESCRIPTIVE
GAZETTEERS AFTER 1900?

One suggestion is that they were supplanted by broader encyclopaedias, a
substantial fraction of whose headwords are typically toponyms. I have
sometimes suggested that the world’s biggest and most widely used
digital gazetteer is now Wikipedia; I once sampled 100 randomly selected
Wikipedia articles, and about 30% had an associated global coordinate.

I WOULD BE VERY GRATEFUL FOR ANY THOUGHTS ANYONE HAS. I continue to find
it bizarre that so much has been written about the history of maps and
so little about the history of gazetteers and itineraries.

With thanks,

Humphrey Southall

Reader in Geography/
Director, GB Historical GIS
University of Portsmouth
Geography Dept, Buckingham Bldg,
Lion Terrace, Portsmouth PO1 3HE, UK
_www.gbhgis.org_ <http://www.gbhgis.org/>& _www.visionofbritain.org.uk_
<http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/>



--
Joel Kovarsky
The Prime Meridian
1839 Clay Dr., Crozet, VA 22932 USA
Phone: 434-823-5696
Email: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
Website: _http://www.theprimemeridian.com_
<http://www.theprimemeridian.com/>



Humphrey Southall
Reader in Geography/
Director, GB Historical GIS
University of Portsmouth
Geography Dept, Buckingham Bldg,
Lion Terrace, Portsmouth PO1 3HE, UK
_www.gbhgis.org_ <http://www.gbhgis.org/>& _www.visionofbritain.org.uk_
<http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/>



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