-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: The decline and fall of the descriptive gazetteer
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2014 17:02:35 +0000 (GMT)
From: A CARLUCCI <[log in to unmask]>
Reply-To: A CARLUCCI <[log in to unmask]>
To: Maps, Air Photo, GIS Forum - Map Librarianship
<[log in to unmask]>
In my years working in US libraries one of the three key reference
sources always right behind the reference desk was the Columbia
Lippincott Gazetteer of the World. This had lengthy descriptive entries
and was being published at least into the 1990s. I don't know off hand
if a print version still exists, but the online subscription version
(now called The Columbia Gazetteer of the World) remains one of the most
useful sources on placenames and geographical history one can find.
April Carlucci
*From:* "Angie Cope, American Geographical Society Library, UW
Milwaukee" <[log in to unmask]>
*To:* [log in to unmask]
*Sent:* Wednesday, 15 January 2014, 21:30
*Subject:* Re: The decline and fall of the descriptive gazetteer
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: The decline and fall of the descriptive gazetteer
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 16:25:36 -0500 (EST)
From: David Allen mailto:[log in to unmask]
To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
I have noticed that at least in the United States descriptive gazetteers
were often closely associated with county atlases and state or local
histories. They seem to have been part of a broader movement of
interest in local history which flourished in the decades after the
Civil War. All three types of publications declined sharply around the
time of the First World War. Not sure of the explanation for the
decline, other than it seems to be linked to broader changes in society,
such as increased geographical mobility and possibly changes in pace of
life that focused interests on subjects other than local or regional
history.
David Allen
(Map Library Emeritus, Stony Brook University)
Encinitas, CA
-----Original Message----- From: Angie Cope, American Geographical
Society Library, UW Milwaukee mailto:[log in to unmask] To: MAPS-L
mailto:[log in to unmask] Sent: Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:44 am Subject:
Re: The decline and fall of the descriptive gazetteer
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: The decline and fall of the descriptive gazetteer
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 19:23:02 +0000
From: humphrey mailto:[log in to unmask]
To: Angie Cope, American Geographical Society Library, UW Milwaukee
mailto:[log in to unmask]
I don’t know much about Chinese gazetteers — but that is precisely
why Peter Bol at Harvard is my co-author on this chapter.
I am very aware that there are other parts of the world besides N
America, W Europe and China, and would be very interested in comments on
them …
Humphrey
On 15 Jan 2014, at 18:54, Angie Cope, American Geographical Society
Library, UW Milwaukee <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
> ------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: The decline and fall of the descriptive gazetteer
> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 12:37:46 -0500
> From: Joel Kovarsky mailto:[log in to unmask]
> To: Maps, Air Photo, GIS Forum - Map Librarianship
> mailto:[log in to unmask]
>
> I am assuming your focus is on Western European gazetteers, and
> perhaps more focused on those British. Their history in China may be
> older:
> <http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2719404?uid=3739936&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21103277674257>
> <http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2719404?uid=3739936&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21103277674257>
> and
> <http://www.emeraldinsight.com/journals.htm?articleid=17066178&show=abstract>
> <http://www.emeraldinsight.com/journals.htm?articleid=17066178&show=abstract>
> . Given my lack of linguistic skill, I have no idea how these
> structurally compare to later western counterparts, although looking
> at that paper it appears they tended to be quite regional. Given your
> ongoing and extensive involvement with this subject, it would not
> surprise me if you already knew this. Joel Kovarsky
> On 1/15/2014 12:15 PM, Angie Cope, American Geographical Society
> Library, UW Milwaukee wrote:
>>
>> forwarded by Angie
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: The decline and fall of the descriptive gazetteer
>> Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 16:27:32 +0000
>> From: humphrey mailto:[log in to unmask]
>> Reply-To: A forum for issues related to map & spatial data
>> librarianship mailto:[log in to unmask]
>> To: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>
>> As some members of this list will know, I am co-editing a book about
>> gazetteers, especially future digital gazetteers; but also authoring
>> an introductory chapter which looks at the history of gazetteers, a
>> surprisingly little explored topic.
>> Our general point is that, although most people’s idea of a
>> gazetteer is simply a list of geographical names each with some kind
>> of coordinate and sometime with a simple “feature type�, like
>> “settlement� or “mountain�, there is an earlier history of
>> gazetteers which provide lengthy descriptions of each place/feature.
>> We have computerised several of these for our web site, A Vision of
>> Britain through Time, and are currently working on tidying up the
>> seven-volume "/Gazetteer of the World, or Dictionary of Geographical
>> Knowledge,/published by Fullarton's of Edinburgh in 1856; this has
>> already been digitised within Google Books, but we are turning it
>> into clean database content. We estimate it contains around 80,000
>> entries and 7m words, so the average entry is a couple of sentences,
>> and many go on for several pages. Similarly, this “entry� for
>> Edinburgh in Groome’s /Ordnance Gazetteer of Scotland/ (1882-4)
>> contains over 100,000 words:
>>
>> http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/descriptions/108700
>>
>> SUCH BOOKS ARE NOT SO MUCH PLACE DICTIONARIES AS PLACE
>> ENCYCLOPAEDIAS. I HAVE BEEN EXPLORING THEIR EARLY HISTORY, BUT THIS
>> POSTING IS TO ASK ABOUT THEIR LATER HISTORY, AFTER 1900.
>>
>> My basic narrative at the moment is that descriptive gazetteers, as
>> distinct from itineraries, first appear in the mid to late
>> seventeenth century, and the lengthiest examples come from the second
>> half of the nineteenth century — but they then pretty much stop —
>> when I have looked at the shelves of gazetteers in various libraries
>> I have mainly seen books from the 19th century, occasionally earlier.
>>
>> The exceptions seem to be:
>>
>> — There are of course lots of atlases which also include a
>> gazetteer at the back (but this is about books which are primarily text)
>>
>> — Bartholomew have kept publishing revised editions of their
>> Gazetteer of the British Isles (but that has relatively short
>> entries, so more a place dictionary than an encyclopaedia).
>>
>> — Various guides aimed mainly at tourists are organised as sets of
>> alphabetically arranged entries about places, with descriptions; for
>> example, various Shell Guides. However, map libraries are less likely
>> to hold these.
>>
>> IS THIS A FAIR NARRATIVE? WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BIG DESCRIPTIVE
>> GAZETTEERS AFTER 1900?
>>
>> One suggestion is that they were supplanted by broader
>> encyclopaedias, a substantial fraction of whose headwords are
>> typically toponyms. I have sometimes suggested that the world’s
>> biggest and most widely used digital gazetteer is now Wikipedia; I
>> once sampled 100 randomly selected Wikipedia articles, and about 30%
>> had an associated global coordinate.
>>
>> I WOULD BE VERY GRATEFUL FOR ANY THOUGHTS ANYONE HAS. I continue to
>> find it bizarre that so much has been written about the history of
>> maps and so little about the history of gazetteers and itineraries.
>>
>> With thanks,
>>
>> Humphrey Southall
>>
>> Reader in Geography/
>> Director, GB Historical GIS
>> University of Portsmouth
>> Geography Dept, Buckingham Bldg,
>> Lion Terrace, Portsmouth PO1 3HE, UK
>> http://www.gbhgis.org/ & http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/
>>
> --
> Joel Kovarsky
> The Prime Meridian
> 1839 Clay Dr., Crozet, VA 22932 USA
> Phone: 434-823-5696
> Email:[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Website:http://www.theprimemeridian.com/
Humphrey Southall
Reader in Geography/
Director, GB Historical GIS
University of Portsmouth
Geography Dept, Buckingham Bldg,
Lion Terrace, Portsmouth PO1 3HE, UK
http://www.gbhgis.org/ & http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/
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